Is this gig even worth the effort?

[1bassleft]

Is the biggest issue (with a lot of justification) that you weren't consulted and taken for granted? If so, let it be made known. On the drive home, because there's no point going all that way to play like dead lettuces because of a frosty atmosphere that can be felt all the way to the back of the bar. In an originals band:
1) The money's not an issue. Not all (many?) gigs ker-ching a tasty profit when all your invisibles are taken into account.
2) The effort's not an issue. Humped a makeshift stage across a park. Driven a 6hr round trip to review a band I liked and sometimes shared a gig with, when they supported a Name band. Brought another band we liked up from London, put them on a show with us and the previously mentioned band, let them have the takings and got them floorspace and cushions for the night.
3) The crowd size isn't the issue. We had one night (no obvious reason why) when our band had carnal knowledge of the entire audience, and we had no rep for groupies whatsoever. It can happen.
4) The transport isn't the issue. Our drummer had no car, and my steel wheels made a better sound than his cymbals, but I'd take him to the gigs. I didn't like how he always appeared at my shoulder when I was going to the bar, though.

None of it made me rich and famous, true, but I got more than enough experiences to write a post long enough to bore the Patron Saint of Long Posts.

The only thing that riled me in all those years was when I went to see our guitarist depping on bass with another band and they played a song of ours that originated and revolved around my bassline. When a mutual chum enthused about their version, I nearly glassed him. After they'd finished, and away from the other band, I let the guitarist know; calmly but firmly.

Not being consulted, not being an integral part of an originals band's decisions and evolution, that really irks. If any of (1)-(4) really irk, perhaps it's not the right band for you.

 

[mark roberts]

Any Charity, is a good cause for the extra effort. If you like these folks you're playing with, if you are their brother, then be there for them. There is no case for this gig not helping you in some way down the road.

People say things all the time, like I support this or that. You get the chance to do it. Sure the gig was made without consulting you, and I would truly make a point to talk to that and make sure it doesn't happen again, but at some point we no longer walk the earth. Play every show as if it was your last bro. You only get get so much time. If yalls playing in some way can help people putting the show together, they will remember afterwards.

There is no bad side other than inconvenience. You may want to book a hotel nearby and see some of the things around there as a mini vacation. Gotta be something to like there.

Turn that frown upside down, especially if you are on the booking already. And smack the guy or gal who booked it with a wet noodle.

Although I agree with the rationale here, I have also been alive and performing as seemingly a forever amateur. I am ok with the latter two words because they allow me to be humble to an ever competitive experience. But, my experience with bands that have other members coming and going, at random, and constantly being placed in a place of “new band” recognition, the same old same old exposure drivel floats to the surface. Venues have ever escalating costs, bands suffer that and ever-changing members. So, it is a lot of effort for the remaining members to adjust (especially for a vocalist or a strong-willed prospect that contributes differently and looks for their “greener pastures”). Additionally, what complicates things is that there is a difference between an artist and a musician and sometimes that performance realization can have mutually exclusive results because of a mindset difference. An artist may audition for a band and perform superlatively, be hired, then leave because his or her artistic goals are squashed by the requirements of the “job”. Conversely, an adept musician (said one with studied accomplishments with ability to duplicate other artists accomplishments...note...read the latter before you flame) may find him or herself in a group that has primary “musician” (per latter “definition”) qualifications but, without an “artist” gene and they turn out to expect both. Somewhere on that continuum is where we all are. Bottom line, every group relationship is a total toss up and we are all damn lucky to have success at any level of our journey through this minefield. Follow your heart, make your sound, send your message and try to not stop your progress. You may have to do it alone sometimes. God speed to you all.

 

[Ian Lewis]

Good luck. Wouldn't be me. My R&B band does an annual long distance gig (aprox 2hr drive) but we get paid or else they'd have to find another bass player to do the gig. Plus, nobody books a gig without checking with the bandmates. That's just plain rude and asinine.

We usually charge extra if it takes more than an hour to get there. Long here usually means 4-6 hours each way so we also add accommodation to the fee.

 

[Ian Lewis]

So my guitarists set a gig for us that’s 2 1/2 hours drive to and from... for only 30 minutes.... 30 goddamn minutes, 3/5 of our songs we will be able to play... and no we are not getting paid, it’s for charity but my issue had nothing to do with getting paid, it’s driving for almost 5 hours for 30 minutes of “exposure” despite the fact we stil haven’t finished recording our ep/album/demo/whateverhedecidesitis.

I usually have to drag the guitarist around and his rig because he doesn’t have a car.

im very heated and am upset, We’ve had worser sudden gigs but this is ridiculous.

It sounds like you don't have enough numbers to play much longer. So how much is 30 minutes exposure worth to you? Original bands have to start somewhere.

 

[JoeD]

People die from exposure!

 

[mattso63]

Hey! I just did that. Drove my guitarist south on a 2 hr road trip to play a 45 minute 'exposure' set for a charity, then drove the 2 hrs back.. We all agreed to the gig so there was no contest there. But its all about attitude. Did we rock? Hell yeh! Did the small crowd get into it? Damn right they did. Was the exposure worth it? Sure was! But I'm in Australia, and this kind of thing might be more common here, I don't know. It was a long day but a memorable one, and I'd do it again.

 

[missinglink44]

So my guitarists set a gig for us that’s 2 1/2 hours drive to and from... for only 30 minutes.... 30 goddamn minutes, 3/5 of our songs we will be able to play... and no we are not getting paid, it’s for charity but my issue had nothing to do with getting paid, it’s driving for almost 5 hours for 30 minutes of “exposure” despite the fact we stil haven’t finished recording our ep/album/demo/whateverhedecidesitis.

I usually have to drag the guitarist around and his rig because he doesn’t have a car.

im very heated and am upset, We’ve had worser sudden gigs but this is ridiculous.

 

[missinglink44]

Ain't nobody getting rich doing this poopie. Playing cuz you love it, and playing with your brothers is the thing. Three of us have nearly 200 years playing total between us. We ain't rich yet, ain't going to happen. My man needs me to play, I got his back.

 

[cchorney]

Several thoughts:

If you are unhappy with the band leader for committing the band to a "non standard" gig without checking with the band members first, I'd say that's a fair complaint and one that should be discussed in a band setting. Non standard in this context to me means farther away than normal, less money than normal, less time than normal. This one seems to hit the trifecta.

If the gig a charity gig or an exposure gig? I realize it can be both but sometimes you do a charity gig for the exposure and sometimes you do a charity gig because it's a worthy charity and the band leader uses the "exposure argument" to preemptively shut down complaints from band mates who may not want to do a charity gig.

If this gig is promised with the next several months I'd play the gig but I'd have a band discussion about it. You're clearly unhappy with the situation so either agreed upon booking guidelines need to be established, or you need to start shopping for a new band.

 

[RJI777]

Several thoughts:

If you are unhappy with the band leader for committing the band to a "non standard" gig without checking with the band members first, I'd say that's a fair complaint and one that should be discussed in a band setting. Non standard in this context to me means farther away than normal, less money than normal, less time than normal. This one seems to hit the trifecta.

If the gig a charity gig or an exposure gig? I realize it can be both but sometimes you do a charity gig for the exposure and sometimes you do a charity gig because it's a worthy charity and the band leader uses the "exposure argument" to preemptively shut down complaints from band mates who may not want to do a charity gig.

If this gig is promised with the next several months I'd play the gig but I'd have a band discussion about it. You're clearly unhappy with the situation so either agreed upon booking guidelines need to be established, or you need to start shopping for a new band.

Some more thoughts...

1/ I think that the author nails what has to be done here, right at the end of the post. It shouldn't be a problem, but it is. As the author says, "Either agreed upon booking guidelines need to be established, or you need to start shopping for a new band."

2/ I wouldn't advise the latter as building up a cohesive band takes time and effort. There's usually a lot of conflict, resolution and learning along the way, of which this is an example. And, yes, there are often causalities; which may or may not be yourself.

3/ However, this is not really the kind of stuff you can learn from a book; some things need to be experienced to really sink in. Try and think of this as part of your musical career development. You need to go through it to become experienced and, more so, if you are going to be together for a long time, it's best to get your fingers burned on people issues and group politics sooner rather than later. Simply put, to become experienced, you have to embrace reality; the good, the bad and the ugly.

4/ But, as above, you should consider ground rules and, if you have them, your band will all be considerably happier (and that's for free, without visiting your dealer).

5/ I should add that there are a few alternative solutions (visiting your dealer being one), but unless you can handle continuous hassle, musical fascism, or being in a band lead by a dictator, I find that a more democratic approach works far better e.g., everyone has a say, probably with assigned responsibilities, and you communicate properly with each other, all the time.

6/ I readily concede that all of this might sound dreadfully simple but, of course, it's not. It's, not free either; a lot of effort is required. However, is it too much work?; not at all. It's just something that comes with the territory when a group of people are trying to accomplish something difficult; something that, IMHO, most definitely applies to bands (young and old).

...expect more comments!

 

[R Briere]

One of the things I enjoy doing as I read threads like this is to look at the Gear that you folks own and use. As a 68 year old Geezer I'm thrilled to have begun my Musical Career as a Bass Player on the Day after the Beatles appeared on Ed Sullvan. I watched Paul McCartney and thought that being a full-blown Rock Star would be a good job. Screaming Girls!?!? Count me IN !!!

The next several decades were fabulous.....Agent$, Record Companie$, GREAT Gig$, Mon$ter Amps, a Band Truck, Radio and Newspaper interviews, Packed Gig$ ...... Life was good..... and then the first GUY (no Woman would do this) who was NOT a member of the Grateful Dead walked onstage wearing Cargo Shorts and a Bud Lite Tee Shirt. An Invisible Referee complete with an Invisible Checkered Flag ran out and it was "GAME OVER". A NEW Generation was now playing the gigs we used to make good money playing.....but they were doing them for FREE. WHAT!?!?

Like a Contagious Virus "Open Mics" spread across the Country and audiences decided to stay home rather than be subjected to them. Paying gigs became "Working for Tips". You no longer paid for gear with Gig Money. You needed a good Day Gig in order to play. The Agents all Died. The Record Companies dried up and advances no longer worked.

My four SVT's became an amp I can carry in my shirt pocket with a 1x12 NEO Cabinet.....cuz my back is broken. Did I have a Ball during the "Golden Years"? I did. Did I know when to quit? I did......the SECOND time I saw a band wearing Cargo Shorts and playing for Free. "My Momma didn't raise No Dummy".

 

[RJI777]

Ain't nobody getting rich doing this poopie. Playing cuz you love it, and playing with your brothers is the thing. Three of us have nearly 200 years playing total between us. We ain't rich yet, ain't going to happen. My man needs me to play, I got his back.

Yeah, me too. Knocking on 50 years of experience, I actually thought I'd retired. Not at all; a guy I was in a band with when we were 14 needed a bass player. Retirement over, and I'm back in the saddle. Hell yeah, it's different, but I am loving it. Fame and fortune? F**k them; they matter not. You're absolutely right; we play because we are brothers, and I guess we will until our dying days. But, in the meantime, we gotta whole lotta rockin' to do...

 

[Sergius Durante]

If you’re being serious, that is pretty amazing.

I’m in Australia and with all the recent bushfires the koala population has been decimated. They lost over 80% of the colony on Kangaroo island apparently.

Over one billion native animals and livestock have been killed because of the bushfires...

I will dedicate it to the beautiful koalas and you

 

[Sergius Durante]

One of the things I enjoy doing as I read threads like this is to look at the Gear that you folks own and use. As a 68 year old Geezer I'm thrilled to have begun my Musical Career as a Bass Player on the Day after the Beatles appeared on Ed Sullvan. I watched Paul McCartney and thought that being a full-blown Rock Star would be a good job. Screaming Girls!?!? Count me IN !!!

The next several decades were fabulous.....Agent$, Record Companie$, GREAT Gig$, Mon$ter Amps, a Band Truck, Radio and Newspaper interviews, Packed Gig$ ...... Life was good..... and then the first GUY (no Woman would do this) who was NOT a member of the Grateful Dead walked onstage wearing Cargo Shorts and a Bud Lite Tee Shirt. An Invisible Referee complete with an Invisible Checkered Flag ran out and it was "GAME OVER". A NEW Generation was now playing the gigs we used to make good money playing.....but they were doing them for FREE. WHAT!?!?

Like a Contagious Virus "Open Mics" spread across the Country and audiences decided to stay home rather than be subjected to them. Paying gigs became "Working for Tips". You no longer paid for gear with Gig Money. You needed a good Day Gig in order to play. The Agents all Died. The Record Companies dried up and advances no longer worked.

My four SVT's became an amp I can carry in my shirt pocket with a 1x12 NEO Cabinet.....cuz my back is broken. Did I have a Ball during the "Golden Years"? I did. Did I know when to quit? I did......the SECOND time I saw a band wearing Cargo Shorts and playing for Free. "My Momma didn't raise No Dummy". View attachment 3697294

Thank you for sharing, I do often love to ask and see what gear others use. It is fascinating

 

[Nankerpledge]

So my guitarists set a gig for us that’s 2 1/2 hours drive to and from... for only 30 minutes.... 30 goddamn minutes, 3/5 of our songs we will be able to play... and no we are not getting paid, it’s for charity but my issue had nothing to do with getting paid, it’s driving for almost 5 hours for 30 minutes of “exposure” despite the fact we stil haven’t finished recording our ep/album/demo/whateverhedecidesitis.

I usually have to drag the guitarist around and his rig because he doesn’t have a car.

im very heated and am upset, We’ve had worser sudden gigs but this is ridiculous.

 

[Nankerpledge]

Maybe try and book another gig in the area.

 

[R Briere]

Yeah, me too. Knocking on 50 years of experience, I actually thought I'd retired. Not at all; a guy I was in a band with when we were 14 needed a bass player. Retirement over, and I'm back in the saddle. Hell yeah, it's different, but I am loving it. Fame and fortune? F**k them; they matter not. You're absolutely right; we play because we are brothers, and I guess we will until our dying days. But, in the meantime, we gotta whole lotta rockin' to do...

One point that I’d like to toss out simply because it needs to be a Respectful Reminder and isn’t meant to imply character or embarrass anyone . One thing we’re guilty of is using the word “Guys” in our posts. We need to be aware that Many of the best Bass Players on the planet are Women. I’m not pointing fingers....simply tossing it out there. There’s a reason why so few female players feel welcome here....and we’re the Reason.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

One point that I’d like to toss out simply because it needs to be a Respectful Reminder and isn’t meant to imply character or embarrass anyone . One thing we’re guilty of is using the word “Guys” in our posts. We need to be aware that Many of the best Bass Players on the planet are Women. I’m not pointing fingers....simply tossing it out there. There’s a reason why so few female players feel welcome here....and we’re the Reason.

How true...

Tina W, Sheryl C, Me'shel, Tal W, Esperanza and others...I'd much rather chat with them!

 

[RJI777]

One point that I’d like to toss out simply because it needs to be a Respectful Reminder and isn’t meant to imply character or embarrass anyone . One thing we’re guilty of is using the word “Guys” in our posts. We need to be aware that Many of the best Bass Players on the planet are Women. I’m not pointing fingers....simply tossing it out there. There’s a reason why so few female players feel welcome here....and we’re the Reason.

Agreed: 100%

You are absolutely right, some of the best bass players on the planet are women e.g., Tal Wilkenfeld, Rhonda Smith, etc., etc. And, as a rather talented professional guitarist said recently, the reason for their ever increasing numbers is that they now earn their places in bands on the merits of their playing, nothing else; being male or female is no longer a factor; simple as!

Unfortunately, that's just one viewpoint and, although I believe things are improving, inequality and discrimination are still major social issues, the world over. And, it would seem that bass playing is still, very much, a "boy's club". Clearly, this is unacceptable and some changes have to be made.

Put, it this way, as part of a recent post, I wrote this: "... (and WRT the fact that there are also some damn fine female bass players out there), "Sometimes a [wo]man's gotta do, what a [wo]man's gotta do", right? ...
...
... what more could a man ask for? And, I assume when it comes to female bassists, much the same applies; although being a man, obviously, I can't verify this." So, yeah, I try; but this particular example was awkward to write, let alone read. Simply put, there's gotta be a better way. The problem is, it's not that simple. Obviously, I can't possibly provide a comprehensive review of the problem in a single post, but here are a couple of things that I have encountered that might be worth thinking about:

1/ As a young manager, I first came across cases of sexual discrimination, over 30 years ago. These issues were put right, pretty much immediately. I honestly thought that these problems were a sign of the times, but 30 years on, I find that they are still a serious scourge of contemporary society. My point: This is a deceptively difficult issue to deal with. In fact, IMHO, it is deeply embedded in society.

2/ I fully understand that the author of the post that I am "responding" to, is not "pointing fingers"; that's not an issue. But, the author does cite my post, so I am compelled to point out that I used the word "guy" because the individual in question was, and still is, male. That is also why I used the term "brothers" later on, although I do concede that this, with hindsight, might be open to interpretation. And, for that I apologise. But my point is this: There are times when people use the word "guy" because they are referring to a guy i.e., a male. IMHO, there's nothing wrong with that.

3/ The problem needs sorted but, please, don't let this be fodder for the "politically correct brigade". I see this all to often, and it achieves nothing (other than making matters worse). Bass playing is real, this issue is real, so please, let's keep things real so we can get it sorted.

4/ Finally, there are a few things that can help. If you've completed an academic work, you'll know that the narrative cannot contain any form of intentional bias, sexual or otherwise. Hence, words like "she", "he", "his" and "her" are usually avoided, with arguments often making use of "they" to compensate. That said, it does help, but academic prose is really hard work to write. As for reading it; well, it pretty much put me off reading anything for life (but that's just me).

So, having said my piece, I'll end with a question; if I may. Based upon the proviso that this has been helpful, could our female bass players help their male compatriots out on this one? If so, please remember that we "guys" can be a bit thick and rather slow on the uptake when it comes to certain matters; especially this one. Hence, it might be an idea to keep things simple, at least to begin with e.g., how would you like to be referred to? We can probably cope with that: Right, Guys?

Okay, I'm done. As above, I hope this helps. See y'all!

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

Agreed: 100%

You are absolutely right, some of the best bass players on the planet are women e.g., Tal Wilkenfeld, Rhonda Smith, etc., etc. And, as a rather talented professional guitarist said recently, the reason for their ever increasing numbers is that they now earn their places in bands on the merits of their playing, nothing else; being male or female is no longer a factor; simple as!

Unfortunately, that's just one viewpoint and, although I believe things are improving, inequality and discrimination are still major social issues, the world over. And, it would seem that bass playing is still, very much, a "boy's club". Clearly, this is unacceptable and some changes have to be made.

Put, it this way, as part of a recent post, I wrote this: "... (and WRT the fact that there are also some damn fine female bass players out there), "Sometimes a [wo]man's gotta do, what a [wo]man's gotta do", right? ...
...
... what more could a man ask for? And, I assume when it comes to female bassists, much the same applies; although being a man, obviously, I can't verify this." So, yeah, I try; but this particular example was awkward to write, let alone read. Simply put, there's gotta be a better way. The problem is, it's not that simple. Obviously, I can't possibly provide a comprehensive review of the problem in a single post, but here are a couple of things that I have encountered that might be worth thinking about:

1/ As a young manager, I first came across cases of sexual discrimination, over 30 years ago. These issues were put right, pretty much immediately. I honestly thought that these problems were a sign of the times, but 30 years on, I find that they are still a serious scourge of contemporary society. My point: This is a deceptively difficult issue to deal with. In fact, IMHO, it is deeply embedded in society.

2/ I fully understand that the author of the post that I am "responding" to, is not "pointing fingers"; that's not an issue. But, the author does cite my post, so I am compelled to point out that I used the word "guy" because the individual in question was, and still is, male. That is also why I used the term "brothers" later on, although I do concede that this, with hindsight, might be open to interpretation. And, for that I apologise. But my point is this: There are times when people use the word "guy" because they are referring to a guy i.e., a male. IMHO, there's nothing wrong with that.

3/ The problem needs sorted but, please, don't let this be fodder for the "politically correct brigade". I see this all to often, and it achieves nothing (other than making matters worse). Bass playing is real, this issue is real, so please, let's keep things real so we can get it sorted.

4/ Finally, there are a few things that can help. If you've completed an academic work, you'll know that the narrative cannot contain any form of intentional bias, sexual or otherwise. Hence, words like "she", "he", "his" and "her" are usually avoided, with arguments often making use of "they" to compensate. That said, it does help, but academic prose is really hard work to write. As for reading it; well, it pretty much put me off reading anything for life (but that's just me).

So, having said my piece, I'll end with a question; if I may. Based upon the proviso that this has been helpful, could our female bass players help their male compatriots out on this one? If so, please remember that we "guys" can be a bit thick and rather slow on the uptake when it comes to certain matters; especially this one. Hence, it might be an idea to keep things simple, at least to begin with e.g., how would you like to be referred to? We can probably cope with that: Right, Guys?

Okay, I'm done. As above, I hope this helps. See y'all!

OK....

All the chicks with chops can comeback now for the HOLE cattlecall auditions...!

If your in a MGTOW band, no one minds...