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It's official
- Thread starter Hambone
- Start date
Bassstud1 said:
Concerning the cost/precision issue - I didn't consider this machine based solely on price. In fact, after plenty of research, the construction of these machines seemed to be better than all of the other machines in my budget and it was only after learning that, that I discovered they were as reasonable as they were. I have a large enough budget to purchase anything available at this size for $15k or less and I was considering lots of others. The precision on this machine is .0001" with a repeatability of .00025". Deflection at full Z extension is .005". They are built with custom machined and hardened drive shafts. All of this will elevate my own work accuracy about 1000%. It's also important to remember that the machine isn't designed for nor will it be used in a production line environment. This setup will be used exactly like a router and template and about as often. I build the exact total of 2 instruments a year and if that quadrupled, I would be very surprised. I didn't consider CNC as a means to being more prolific. My intent is to use the machine to assist me in building a better put together, more consistent instrument.
Sounds like you've got the technical details covered. Great! I see what you mean, the "1/2 axis" is an axis that you will not be using for what is called in robotics "coordinated motion" with the other two.
I hope that the flak you refer to re: PMs is not about "you sold out and got a CNC and now you're not a true craftsman." If it is, please, please, please just ignore it.
Remember, you can design the instrument and hand carve it; you can design the instrument and make templates and rout it; you can design the instrument and make a program and CNC it. In all cases, there are just two important questions: is it a good design, and was it well executed. The first is the same for all three methods, being internal to the designer; and the second can be done well or badly using all three methods.
I don't see Sheldon Dingwall or Chris Benevente taking crap for using CNC (maybe they do, but I've never seen it in public), and neither should you.
I would think that a great advantage of the CNC would be in prototyping--you could make a body design, carve one out in a cheap material and mount a neck to try out the feel, and then easily tweak the shape as many times as you like, to get the look and the feel perfect.
I hope that the flak you refer to re: PMs is not about "you sold out and got a CNC and now you're not a true craftsman." If it is, please, please, please just ignore it.
Remember, you can design the instrument and hand carve it; you can design the instrument and make templates and rout it; you can design the instrument and make a program and CNC it. In all cases, there are just two important questions: is it a good design, and was it well executed. The first is the same for all three methods, being internal to the designer; and the second can be done well or badly using all three methods.
I don't see Sheldon Dingwall or Chris Benevente taking crap for using CNC (maybe they do, but I've never seen it in public), and neither should you.
I would think that a great advantage of the CNC would be in prototyping--you could make a body design, carve one out in a cheap material and mount a neck to try out the feel, and then easily tweak the shape as many times as you like, to get the look and the feel perfect.
chris's work got better (and you are right on) more consistantly better on a per instument basis.
I can say for certian that sheldon uses one but It looks like it
two thumbs up hambone!
Congrats
I can say for certian that sheldon uses one but It looks like it
two thumbs up hambone!
Congrats
- Jun 6, 2004
- 6,351
- 543
- 66
- Disclosures
- Owner and builder Clementbass
Sorry for your loss man. I lost my father in July after a 15 year fight with cancer. I am having a new shop built so I can haul all his tools down from N.C. not a fun way to aquire more tools. :scowl:
Well, Alan, moving forward on the equipment side, aren't you? From a high level and upgoing....
I would line up for that sander, if you haven't gotten rid of it yet...even though it's 115V.
I would line up for that sander, if you haven't gotten rid of it yet...even though it's 115V.
Hi Hambone,
It's a good thing that you're persuing these interests and taking steps to improve your basses, especially now. I know a highly respected luthier in my area, who considered CNC for years and finally made the step. Making negative comments to him would be ludicrous, just as it would be for you. And to think that those who made the comments, if they are builders, don't use jigs themselves. It's a never ending irony, let 'em crow 'till the sun goes down. This thing isn't about getting anyones approval, so all the best.
It's a good thing that you're persuing these interests and taking steps to improve your basses, especially now. I know a highly respected luthier in my area, who considered CNC for years and finally made the step. Making negative comments to him would be ludicrous, just as it would be for you. And to think that those who made the comments, if they are builders, don't use jigs themselves. It's a never ending irony, let 'em crow 'till the sun goes down. This thing isn't about getting anyones approval, so all the best.
I didn't mean any harm. I'm not real familiar with the modular system that you are purchasing. At work we use the same extrusions that are on your machine. They seem to be very sturdy. We make balance checking machines from them. There is "0' pressure on them except for the weight of our product. I'm a tool and die maker who got stuck in engineering department because I knew about machining and computers. Hopefully some day I hope to design some basses too. All the luck in the world to you, my father passed when I was 13 I still miss him, I'm 49 now. Thank god for good memories.
Bassstud1 said:
OK, my curiosity is up - What's a "balance checking" machine? I could use one for my checking account if they're cheap.
Pilot, it's not that age old topic (thankfully). It's more of the "you have no idea what you're doing" sort of elitist stuff that comes from a total lack of knowledge of my situation. They'll get over it.
Stud, there are several equipment manufacturers that use this type of extrusion in their machines. Apparently it's becoming more widely accepted.
Hey, buddy, you got a problem with engineers?!Bassstud1 said:
Yeah, sometimes I feel stuck in one also.
Hambone,
We make industrial blowers. We make a lot of blowers for moving a lot of things. I can't go into detail but some of the blower wheels we make spin at very high RPM which require a very close (spinning)balance.
Pilot,
I complain about my desk job but Friday I had to go into the shop and run some proto type parts. Standing for 8-10 hours a day is not quite as glamourous as I remember.
We make industrial blowers. We make a lot of blowers for moving a lot of things. I can't go into detail but some of the blower wheels we make spin at very high RPM which require a very close (spinning)balance.
Pilot,
I complain about my desk job but Friday I had to go into the shop and run some proto type parts. Standing for 8-10 hours a day is not quite as glamourous as I remember.
I've spoken with my brother and the rest of my current tool lineup will be going to him. He is a hobbyist boat builder and designer and is trying to tool up on a budget in his own shop. His needs don't require near the precision that I do so my old tools should fit his requirements pretty well. And he's ecstatic about getting them anyway!
forgive my ignorance:
Why do you need to do any major sanding if you have a CNC machine?
I thought CNC was "perfect". The guy that planed the wood for my bass showed me a bowl that they made with a CNC machine, and it was perfectly smooth. He said the only thing they did to it was varnish it
Why do you need to do any major sanding if you have a CNC machine?
I thought CNC was "perfect". The guy that planed the wood for my bass showed me a bowl that they made with a CNC machine, and it was perfectly smooth. He said the only thing they did to it was varnish it
Your friend made a bowl, probably in a lathe which is a spinning object thaty the tool moves around. The bowl is symetrical where a bass body is not. Even though they are both CNC machines the actual cutting process is quite different. Even though the are both pieces of wood the geometry is very different.
True, turning can produce a very high finish, as compared to milling. If bassstud1 is correct, the only similarity between donut's friend's expoerience and Hambone's setup is that they are both CNC--but this is only like saying, "these two things were done with hand tools." Similar but not really so similar.
Yep, depending on hardness of the material, about the smoothest you can get is to where the tool marks are only that - marks. Then you'll have to sand them out to pull up the wood grain. One method to get a very smooth surface is by using a very slow feed rate for your tool. But in wood, that can lead to heat buildup and eventually scorching. It's also different if you are cutting on the side of the tool rather than the end. Lots to consider.
Edit, I'm talking of the finish directly from a CNC router of this quality level. Everyones mileage varies.
Edit, I'm talking of the finish directly from a CNC router of this quality level. Everyones mileage varies.
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
if you don't mind me asking.
john turner said:good job hammy. we need to have an "atlanta bass player get together/wood hack" at your place
That is definitely in the plans. I'm thinking probably late spring is about the earliest I can swing it and have things in place. We'll open the whole damn ranch up and really cut loose. Put those "small, quiet gathering" plans away. If they don't detect it downtown at the GA Tech seizmology lab, I won't consider it a success.
This sounds like the discussions we have regarding the use of CNC machinery in the custom knife world. You mean this machine wont just spit out basses all wired and strung ready to play??? 
I have a 3 axis CNC milling machine that's slightly larger than a Bridgeport. My only word of caution is consider the software you are going to use. Get a copy of it BEFORE you buy the machine and get REALLY familiar with it. You are also going to have to be very good with CAD. All your programing is going to come from you CAD drawings. I have 25 years experience with CNC machinery and it still took me about 4 months to get my system up and running exactly the way I wanted!!
Cool machine, good luck with it
I have a 3 axis CNC milling machine that's slightly larger than a Bridgeport. My only word of caution is consider the software you are going to use. Get a copy of it BEFORE you buy the machine and get REALLY familiar with it. You are also going to have to be very good with CAD. All your programing is going to come from you CAD drawings. I have 25 years experience with CNC machinery and it still took me about 4 months to get my system up and running exactly the way I wanted!!
Cool machine, good luck with it
