Strange...i sometimes string my bass F#,B,E,A but it's high-strung and only sounds good with a set of 40s. A .175 F# featured on some Warwick and apparantly can only work good depending on how decent your amp is. I think it's a specialised market reallky.
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Its taken a while for the low B, how long for lower?
- Thread starter sonicnuance
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Also, it your neck is properly built, e.g. carbon stiffening rods etc. you should be able to get a fine and fast profile.
It really depends on your audience, and the song. Playing to the elephant cage at the Bronx or San Diego zoos? Your audience is going to be receptive. However, if humans are your target audience, those sub lows are not going to be appreciated, and probably not even discerned.
I'm not an elephant, but I can hear the notes. See many previous posts that humans CAN hear the low f# and below.
JAUQO III-X
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Wow I must be crazy then
Check out the tracks 0321 and 0407 and you may be able to hear the Low F# string and lower.
And I'm only bringing this up as a refference for those who continue to believe that a string so Low is musically useless and inaudible.
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TalkBass fieldtrip to the zoo?
Come on guy's, it'll be fun, we'll all bring low tuned basses, sure we won't be able to hear them, but it'll be a kickin' time anyway!
Come on guy's, it'll be fun, we'll all bring low tuned basses, sure we won't be able to hear them, but it'll be a kickin' time anyway!
TalkBass fieldtrip to the zoo?
Come on guy's, it'll be fun, we'll all bring low tuned basses, sure we won't be able to hear them, but it'll be a kickin' time anyway!
hahaha. i'm in
It's probably been said, but:
This thread isn't about whether low F# is useful or audible, it's about whether it'll be as popular as low B. I believe low F# is useful and audible, but I don't believe it'll ever be as popular as low B. Various reasons pro and con have been discussed already.
This thread isn't about whether low F# is useful or audible, it's about whether it'll be as popular as low B. I believe low F# is useful and audible, but I don't believe it'll ever be as popular as low B. Various reasons pro and con have been discussed already.
Wow I must be crazy then
Check out the tracks 0321 and 0407 and you may be able to hear the Low F# string and lower.
And I'm only bringing this up as a refference for those who continue to believe that a string so Low is musically useless and inaudible.
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"May be able" are the operative words here. No question F# and lower are audible, and humans have the ability to hear that aspect of the sound spectrum, especially if you are Bassist and are listening for it. However, the typical audience, whether concert or club, probably wouldn't notice and doesn't care. Useless? Probably not! Useful? probably not! That's the last time i'll use pachyderms to illustrate my point.
I believe it will get more popular but I don't see it becoming mainstream.
Food for thought:
- Bösendorfer Imperial Pianos and Pipe Organs reach C0 (16 Hz).
- There is a technique to simulate low notes on pipe organ (typically produced by 32' pipe rank) by simultaneously playing two notes a fifth apart using the 16' rank. You can still perceive the difference between the "trick" and the "real" when you are there but I'm not sure in a recording (never paid attention in a recording).
- "Afekt" was considered part of a composers palette up to the 1800's.
- For a great read in psycho acoustics, music and musicianship in general try "This is your brain on music".
Food for thought:
- Bösendorfer Imperial Pianos and Pipe Organs reach C0 (16 Hz).
- There is a technique to simulate low notes on pipe organ (typically produced by 32' pipe rank) by simultaneously playing two notes a fifth apart using the 16' rank. You can still perceive the difference between the "trick" and the "real" when you are there but I'm not sure in a recording (never paid attention in a recording).
- "Afekt" was considered part of a composers palette up to the 1800's.
- For a great read in psycho acoustics, music and musicianship in general try "This is your brain on music".
knuckle_head
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- Jul 30, 2002
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- Owner; Knuckle Guitar Works & Circle K Strings
Wow I must be crazy then
Why yes.... yes you are.
I am KIDDING!This same discussion was had over the B string forever ago (well, given that the electric bass is only 77 years old...) - that isn't to say the F# will grow into what the B string has become.
As guitars go lower so basses will too. New instruments make for new music - we'll have to wait and see. That it works and can work quite well can be denied, but only by the uninformed and/or the inexperienced.
It's too new to be formulaic. I have heard octave E and F# live, in the studio and recorded. There is some great stuff out there that proves it, but the best stuff is yet to be written/performed.
knuckle_head
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"May be able" are the operative words here. No question F# and lower are audible, and humans have the ability to hear that aspect of the sound spectrum, especially if you are Bassist and are listening for it. However, the typical audience, whether concert or club, probably wouldn't notice and doesn't care. Useless? Probably not! Useful? probably not! That's the last time i'll use pachyderms to illustrate my point.
Ever heard Peter Gabriel's Sledge Hammer recorded or live? That bass note hit just before the vocals kick in is F#.
really? a low F#? even i'm surprised that it would find a use with such a mainstream artist.
You are likely hearing overtones. If you doubt it, go into an audio program (like Audacity) and generate a pure tone of 23 Hz.
Well, I certainly got a response. My criticisms were influenced by the probabilities of mass acceptance, rather than the undoubted abilities of luthiers.
Here's the original question:
"So, since technology has marched along nicely, I'm wondering if some lower note will become "mainstream" and at what point. For example, does anyone think the low F# (a fourth below the low B) will become commonplace and if so, how many years from now?"
My main point about the concept is not to deny that there will be persons who master the design, building, playing and reproducing of an F# string, but those myriads of others -- me, alas, among them -- who are not virtuosos nor moneyed amateurs.
After all, the option of an F# string is available now, if you can find the right builder, and it is certainly a good thing if you have the chops to exploit it, which includes a reasonably good transducer system.
But we're not talking (as I understand it) about What Would Jaco Do but, rather, general adoption of a new paradigm. I have nothing but respect for those who can exploit uncommon tools of expression, but the question was, when will a low F# string become "mainstream". That's a whole different issue from whether it can be done or whether it's desirable to do it, or whether any individual here has already done it; and that's the issue I was trying to address.
For you who are using such low tunings, I salute you. But you may want to think twice or maybe thrice before you claim that your particular facility is "mainstream."
Here's the original question:
"So, since technology has marched along nicely, I'm wondering if some lower note will become "mainstream" and at what point. For example, does anyone think the low F# (a fourth below the low B) will become commonplace and if so, how many years from now?"
My main point about the concept is not to deny that there will be persons who master the design, building, playing and reproducing of an F# string, but those myriads of others -- me, alas, among them -- who are not virtuosos nor moneyed amateurs.
After all, the option of an F# string is available now, if you can find the right builder, and it is certainly a good thing if you have the chops to exploit it, which includes a reasonably good transducer system.
But we're not talking (as I understand it) about What Would Jaco Do but, rather, general adoption of a new paradigm. I have nothing but respect for those who can exploit uncommon tools of expression, but the question was, when will a low F# string become "mainstream". That's a whole different issue from whether it can be done or whether it's desirable to do it, or whether any individual here has already done it; and that's the issue I was trying to address.
For you who are using such low tunings, I salute you. But you may want to think twice or maybe thrice before you claim that your particular facility is "mainstream."
knuckle_head
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To be direct to your point, I suggest that it may never be mainstream as the application of a B string is an exception some 30 years after it was foisted on us. The guitar is only now embracing tunings below E so it will be a little while before songs in the key of B will be penned and more prevalent.
As a tool I bet F# finds its place as the B-keyed pieces become common and F# is utilized in relation to B much as B is utilized now in relation to E.
What the hell do I know - I just build basses.
EDIT - and FWIW an F# can be strung up on any bass. A bass need not be built specifically to do it.
As a tool I bet F# finds its place as the B-keyed pieces become common and F# is utilized in relation to B much as B is utilized now in relation to E.
What the hell do I know - I just build basses.
EDIT - and FWIW an F# can be strung up on any bass. A bass need not be built specifically to do it.
In a nutshell, this is the strongest - and in my opinion most conclusive - argument against the low F# ever becoming mainstream. For one thing, it takes a trained and disciplined ear to clearly distinguish (and appreciate) frequencies in that range - and the vast majority of casual listeners (i.e. your audience) are simply not going to make the time or effort. There's only so far one can extend the range of frequencies one uses to make music. Eventually one bumps up against the limits of human hearing and sound comprehension.
Secondly, there simply is little musical imperative for the low F#. The vast majority of music communicates what it needs to communicate within the range of notes and frequencies commonly available already. Just because one can do it, technologically speaking, doesn't necessarily mean that one should...
Do more with the frequencies you've already got, I say. Music is about a lot more than just physics...
MM
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