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Double Bass I've converted- Realist to Fishman Full Circle

Robin Ruscio

Supporting Member
Dec 15, 2003
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Denver, CO, USA
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For pizz at least. It sounded awesome on my first gig last night.

Clearer, louder, tighter more defined lows, wow!

I should've tried it years ago. A student who has heard me lots came by my gig in a horrible sounding room and said it was the best tone he'd heard from me- he was kind of freaking out, saying it sounded like Gary Peacock or something.

I'm keeping the realist for theater gigs where I need a good bow sound, though- the Fishman is a bit scratchy arco. Having both pickups should really give me some options.

Thanks to the TB crowd who provided me some data on switching, particularly whoever put up the post A/Bing the two pickups.
 
Welcome to the fold. If your amplification gear has adjustable input gain, you can experiment with all sorts of "presence" adjustments as well. I've been using the FC for years and am still playing with this aspect. Enjoy!

Chris, one of the main reasons I switched was because of you. Actually I just am using whatever you suggest these days!;)

I am running it into the PJB SFC, so when you speak of adjusting presence, do you mean the preamp gain? How does that work?

Please just send me a PM anytime you buy new gear in the future so I'm not so far behind next time!
 
Ha! If that were true, I'd either be playing much more expensive basses, or you'd be playing less expensive ones.

The input gain on the PJB gear is pretty amazing. For the hottest, most present, in your face, "**** you and up yours buddy" kind of sound, adjust the input gain to where your hardest playing triggers the input clip light to flash briefly. For the next level down, turn the limiter on (it's really a great limiter on that amp) and adjust until the red light doesn't come on, but the blue limiter light flashes occasionally on your hardest hitting moments. For a less direct, more ambient kind of sound, back off the input control to the point where no lights go off when you play even when you're physically killing it. There's a lot of "natural" sound to be had in that range - sometimes it's more appropriate than others.

Last, there's the whole aspect of how hard you play with the FC. Past a certain point (assuming you use reasonably high string height/tension), the sound starts to get harsh if you're really spanking the string at the end of the board. By lightening up your touch, you can get a mellower, less strident sound out of the pickup. In order to really take advantage of this, you have to consider the pickup and amp as part of your instrument and just play to the tonal possibilities inherent in all three of these things. There's a lot there to play with!
 
Last, there's the whole aspect of how hard you play with the FC. Past a certain point (assuming you use reasonably high string height/tension), the sound starts to get harsh if you're really spanking the string at the end of the board. By lightening up your touch, you can get a mellower, less strident sound out of the pickup. In order to really take advantage of this, you have to consider the pickup and amp as part of your instrument and just play to the tonal possibilities inherent in all three of these things. There's a lot there to play with!

Chris,
The same is definitely true for the Realist as well, probably even more so, but in a different sense. Once you pass reasonably moderate volume levels, it's timbre becomes harsh and full of the wrong midrange frequencies. Not pretty. The Underwood does that as well, the Revolution Solo will get there if you push it, and the BP-100 just sounds that way all the time! I'm beginning to think it's a characteristic of piezo transducers. Not sure, but it seems like it is. I think that the advantage of the Realist and Full Circle is that their output is hotter to begin with, so it just takes longer to reach that crossover timber change. Just my thoughts. I'm so fortunate that the Ehrlund EAP works so well on my particular bass, with my amp, and cabinets. It's liberating not to have to deal with that change in sound.

Ric
 
...I think that the advantage of the Realist and Full Circle is that their output is hotter to begin with, so it just takes longer to reach that crossover timber change. Ric

Ric,

I don't think the greater output level of those pickups is what produces the difference. Here's why. Gain is gain. All other things being equal, and issues of signal-to-noise ratio aside, whether a certain level is achieved as a combination of a higher initial output followed by less amplification or a lower initial output followed by greater amplification is of little to no consequence.

The truth is that all other things are likely not equal. That is, the spectral (frequency) profiles of the Full Circle and Fishman are likely quite different from each other and from other pickups.

Let's take a closer look at this phenomenon that many of us experience wherein as the level of amplification is increased, the sound often becomes more objectionable. Often, what is objectionable is the preponderance of midrange frequencies.

Now, starting at a low level of amplification, if we consider only the output of the rig, then increasing the gain will affect all frequencies equally. It will not, however, affect the perceived loudness (a psychological quantity) of all frequencies equally. In fact, as the level is raised, the predominance of the midrange frequencies will become less and less (see here), exactly opposite to the common experiences reported.

So, what is it that explains our common experience? Here's my theory. As players, when the level of amplification is low, we hear and feel a mix of the energy of the bass itself along with the rig. That's true for the audience as well, especially in a small group setting. As players, the effect is pronounced as a result of our proximity to the bass and the fact that we are often behind the cab so that we hear less of the higher-frequency content.

Now, as the level of amplification is raised, the output of the rig dominates and, frankly, the amplified sound of our favorite piezos just isn't all that satisfying. Consistent with this are recordings I've heard of my own playing in a combo setting. I'm always less happy with the character of the sound than I was at the gig. I think that's because what I hear in the recording is essentially only the rig.

What may add to all of this is that, at low levels of amplification, the temporal peaks are what are "popping up" as audible. When the amplification is increased, the flat temporal attack/decay that is actually uncharacteristic of the instrument itself becomes dominant. This relates to the position stated here, with which many seem to agree.

Enter the Ehrlund pickup. I won't reiterate here what's been discussed in the dedicated threads but, suffice it to say, it is a different animal than the piezo pickups usually discussed, both in terms of its spectral profile and the temporal attck/decay profile it transduces. I think that's why when you increase the amplified signal of the Ehrlund it doesn't become objectionable.
 
I've become an amp guy. After years of beating myself up at the mercy of whatever variable I happen to be subjected to, I use an amp when necessart. This question of gain. I'm using a simple GK amp. I have a gain and a master volume. I also have a 'boost'. Right now I'm just dialing in all of those to the middle and going with it. Sounds good to great but there is that little honk in there.. So are you saying turn the gain all the way up or at least very high towards clipping and then dial in the master volume to suit the occasion?
 
I've become an amp guy. After years of beating myself up at the mercy of whatever variable I happen to be subjected to, I use an amp when necessart. This question of gain. I'm using a simple GK amp. I have a gain and a master volume. I also have a 'boost'. Right now I'm just dialing in all of those to the middle and going with it. Sounds good to great but there is that little honk in there.. So are you saying turn the gain all the way up or at least very high towards clipping and then dial in the master volume to suit the occasion?

Jason,

I'm sure that Les will come on to the thread and give you the skinny, but here's what I was told, by K Jung a good friend and amp lover. The older amps, like my Walter Woods MI-400-8 were designed to have the master volume run all the way open, and then adjust the volume level at the channel volume control. Newer amps, like your GK and my Walter Woods Ultra work differently, as you open the master volume to 4 or 5 and then set the channel volume to the level you want. You can continue to turn the master up gradually if you're not getting enough volume, but you don't turn it to "11".

Ric