i've never trusting a backline again

[mattq]

so my band tonight played a battle of the bands. cheesy, i know, but it was still fun. i brought my head with me tonight just in case i didn't trust what they had in store for me. i was extra paranoid tonight because two days ago we played another club that had a backline for us that would have been great except that the amp kept cutting out on me whenever i clipped the gain. it was a carvin r600(?). and the carvin stigma aside, it actually sounded really good paired up with the big 8x10 they had. i was pleasantly surprised. but when we started playing, i kept noticing that whenever i hit a note hard on one of our more rockin songs i wouldn't hear that note. extremely frustrating because my swr 350 doesn't cut out when i clip, it just kinda distorts which i kinda like. flash forward to tonight. i bring my head with me, but am relieved to find an ashdown abm500 evo paired with a abm410. i had even wanted to try this amp out. awesome, right? it was until i started playing it. i got like 30 seconds of tone twiddling before we started and couldn't find anything good which isn't the amps fault, but was the start of a larger frustration. we start playing our opening song which is really rockin and lo and behold i'm nowhere to be heard. i turn to look at the little meter and see the needle go into the red whenever i can't hear myself. that pissed me right off. i fixed the gain after the first song, but the damage had been done and i looked like an amateur. i even checked to make sure i was in the right input for my active bass. so do all amps cut signal when you clip the gain except for mine or what?

we didn't win either. still fun and we met great people, but i'm never trusting a backline again. two gigs in a row!!!!

 

[Johnny Mac]

I've heard of amps having things in them to cut the volume if the gain is too much. Having the gain too high can cause damage to the speaker or the rest of the amp.

 

[Metallkasten]

Adjust your bass's volume and and volumes on any effects.

Presonally, I was having a similar problem until I turned down the gain on my compressor

 

[Warr Tapper]

never ever ever ever use anything except your own equipment. If the soundguy / club doesn't like it. Too friggin' bad. Walk the hell out, and never play there again. If the club doesn't take the bands / sound seriously, it's not worth it.

 

[Matt Till]

Man, when I went on tour, it was awesome. Whenever there was a backline rig... it was seriously always a Ampeg SVT and Ampeg cab with 8x10s! I always wanted to play through that setup, and I got to about 4 times on tour! I sounded like thunder, it ruled.

 

[scottbass]

never ever ever ever use anything except your own equipment. If the soundguy / club doesn't like it. Too friggin' bad. Walk the hell out, and never play there again. If the club doesn't take the bands / sound seriously, it's not worth it.

It's too bad I can't tell how old you are from your profile - I hope I'm not criticizing an opinionated (and WRONG) kid here. With an attitude like you just expressed, you will go NOWHERE in the music business. Everything is a compromise, unless it's just you recording only you all by yourself in your very own studio.

Do I really need to explain the time and consistency issues that cause some clubs to furnish a backline?

We just replaced a member of our band for just this reason. We were playing a prestigious all-day and all-night show that had backline equipment. The concept here is they wanted the bands to set up and tear down fast so the next band could be ready to go with only a 15 to 30 minute gap. The sound guys didn't have to mess around setting all the trims for a whole new mess of amps, drum mics, etc. One member of our band threw exactly the kind of prim donna tantrum you just described - "If I can't play my own gear I'm walking out". We had to beg and plead like little children to get the sound guys to allow him to use his own gear.

Playing live is stressful (and fun), but the rest of us agreed we don't want this kind of stress from one of our own members. That show was the last he played with us.

You will experience this same reaction if you cop this kind of an attitude. That's a fact. Yes, we all want to sound the very best each and every time we play, but it's not always possible. Throwing a little kid tantrum about a backline will not contribute to your success as a live performer.

 

[thumbzilla]

That's the way the Grand Ol' Opry does it. Walk in with your axe already hung, plug in, plunk a few notes for the soundman and get ready to play. You got about three minutes until the commercial is over. Bet nobody would shrug that gig off...

 

[tribal3140]

NEVER EVER EVeR PLAY A BACKLINE.

period.
unless you are a boring as hell player it'll sound crappy out in the crowd.
and I am no amateur I have played hundreds and the soundguys never care and are usually wasted because they dont have to do anything.
the stage guy hooks you up (if your lucky- theres been several occasional where they didnt even hook me up on an outdoor stage festival- those bastards.)
F*** em
and to adress that "if you refuse to do backlines you'll go nowhere........" is wrong too.
once you are past the interviews and are signed you wont be doing any backline gigs, you wont even be using someone elses mixer.

 

[mattq]

the problem with adjusting my volume on my bass is that i play with my volume knob a lot. it's sorta my mute button.

the problem with those two gigs in particular that screwed me up was that changeover was literally five minutes. i played with the tone settings just enough to try make it sound like i wanted in theory, and didn't even think about the whole gain issue. the worst part is that because i was so distracted by amp giving me grief i played like crap even when i could hear myself.

most of the time i do get to use my own stuff. and even when i don't, i'm pretty wary of what's there. i don't really like gk stuff, but the only time i've been pleasantly surprised by a backline amp in terms of tone and volume was when i played a 2001rb through the gk 4x12 setup.

just for the record, i'll probably end up having to use a backline again at some point. relationships are just about the only way to get ahead in the biz. that sound guy i was a jerk to about using my own amp may be the same sound guy that's mixing at that particular club at that showcase that's supposed to get me signed. or five years from now he's running the label i signed with and guess who's on the chopping block due to budget cuts? sucks, but that's the way it is

 

[bishopthomas]

NEVER EVER EVeR PLAY A BACKLINE.

period.
unless you are a boring as hell player it'll sound crappy out in the crowd.
and I am no amateur I have played hundreds and the soundguys never care and are usually wasted because they dont have to do anything.
the stage guy hooks you up (if your lucky- theres been several occasional where they didnt even hook me up on an outdoor stage festival- those bastards.)
F*** em
and to adress that "if you refuse to do backlines you'll go nowhere........" is wrong too.
once you are past the interviews and are signed you wont be doing any backline gigs, you wont even be using someone elses mixer.

You couldn't be more wrong. First of all, if you are playing places where the soundguy is drunk and you're not even connected to the PA in an outdoor festival then you are playing amateur gigs. Secondly, many of the top touring bands in America use backline and locally provided PA's any chance they get. It saves a ton of money to not have to bring your own racks, stacks, and crew. Let's see, off the top of my head, some bands I've worked with as the non-drunk soundman who have used provided backline and/or PA: Buddy Jewel, Tommy Cash, The Nerds, The Grassroots, Doug Stone, Gary US Bonds, the list goes on and on. All are major chart-topping signed bands. None of them complained about having to play someone else's drums or bass gear.

If you can't get a good tone on decent equipment (backline rentals are usually very standard models that are of good quality) then you need to get off the stage. To say that "it'll sound crappy out in the crowd" just shows that you know nothing about shaping an amp's tone to get something that sounds good. Maybe not YOUR tone, but not a bad one.

 

[bassman1185]

It sounds a lot like the amp's compressor was on too high. I've had that same problem before I figured out how to get a good compressed sound from my ME-50B.

 

[scottbass]

just for the record, i'll probably end up having to use a backline again at some point. relationships are just about the only way to get ahead in the biz. that sound guy i was a jerk to about using my own amp may be the same sound guy that's mixing at that particular club at that showcase that's supposed to get me signed. or five years from now he's running the label i signed with and guess who's on the chopping block due to budget cuts? sucks, but that's the way it is

EXACTLY! The posts in this forum show that there are two kinds of people who play music: those who know everyone has to work together, and those who think everyone else exists to serve them. (Notice I didn't call them all "musicians"!)

 

[Jiggybass]

This is gettin' good!


Backlines are hella usefull, great for speedy switch-ups, betwwen bands. Gets you more playing time, than time b*&%^ing about every little thing. Grow up guys, not everything in the world is perfect. Accept it. Either that, or just don't play there. Was that so damn hard? yeesh, some people are never happy.

 

[enim]

For backlined shows - Get your own preamp, and run through the power amp ONLY. Saves all the eqing headache, becuase your Pre shoudl be close to what you like already.

 

[ModulusFan]

So in other words, since you didn't do the most important thing in your short time setting up......setting the input gain. It takes 5 seconds max, it's not rocket science. So, you abused someone else's gear, then have the nerve to bitch about it?

Had that been my gear you were abusing, I would have yanked the plug on you immediately. If you abused my gear, then had the nerve to whine about it being junk due to your own incompetence, I probably would have punched you out.

 

[mattq]

So in other words, since you didn't do the most important thing in your short time setting up......setting the input gain. It takes 5 seconds max, it's not rocket science. So, you abused someone else's gear, then have the nerve to bitch about it?

Had that been my gear you were abusing, I would have yanked the plug on you immediately. If you abused my gear, then had the nerve to whine about it being junk due to your own incompetence, I probably would have punched you out.

i know it's not rocket science. i did set the input gain. i made sure i was in the proper channel (with both of those amps) and i when i realized how hot my bass was running, i turned the gain down what i thought would be enough (just with the ashdown). it didn't cut out again until we started the song so i didn't think there would be a problem.

both times, the amps weren't "anyone's." the carvin amp was the house amp at the first place, and the ashdown was a rented piece that the battle of the bands organization had provided. both of these amps i had never ever even seen before that night and there was no one who had to explain even the smallest thing about them. i didn't abuse anything. the amp cut out; that was to prevent me from unknowingly abusing it. and i didn't complain about it while i was there. that's what this forum is for and i wanted to see if this was a common backline type of issue.

and please don't call me incompetent or punch me out

 

[brianrost]

NEVER EVER EVeR PLAY A BACKLINE.
period.
unless you are a boring as hell player it'll sound crappy out in the crowd.
and I am no amateur I have played hundreds and the soundguys never care and are usually wasted because they dont have to do anything.

If backline is provided I always use it (except for one club gig this has always been large festivals). I was screwed once when the amp was really beaten up and another time when the promised amp wasn't even there Then I just DIed and put the bass in the wedges.

Most of the time it's been a large Ampeg, SWR or GK/Hartke rig. No problems with that stuff ever.

 

[Ed Goode]

The first thing I do is introduce myself to the sound guy, even if he is "wasted". It takes 30 seconds to say hello and the guy will likely remember you when you're getting set up.

Most backline supplied stuff at most places is decent, workable gear. If you have a "new friend" in the sound guy, he'll get you a good tone .... break his stones constantly and he'll screw you 10 ways to Sunday.

If you want to be treated as a professional you need to act like one ......

 

[Spoiled Grape]

The first thing I do is introduce myself to the sound guy, even if he is "wasted". It takes 30 seconds to say hello and the guy will likely remember you when you're getting set up.

Most backline supplied stuff at most places is decent, workable gear. If you have a "new friend" in the sound guy, he'll get you a good tone .... break his stones constantly and he'll screw you 10 ways to Sunday.

If you want to be treated as a professional you need to act like one ......

Qouted for truth.

Step 1) Walk into club.

Step 2) Find sound guy, talk to sound guy, ask sound guy where the promoter is. TIP: The sound guy will usually be at a club WAAAAY before the promoter is, exceptions include festivals and one time/annual events where there is more demand on the promoter.

Step 3) After talking to promoter and nailing out details, go back to the sound guy and ask if he would prefer you use a backline, what pieces of gear he wants the band to use etc. I cover for the whole band. Cymbols? Snare? Kick? What about preamps? Can I use my head on the cab if we go DI? The guitarists have different pedal setups, do we have time to go over them, or do you think we can handle it on stage?

If you take care of this stuff first, it makes the rest of the night enjoyable and less stressful. Local gigs aren't that bad, but the last thing you want while on tour is to have to worry about the actual gig, because as most touring musicians know, there are so many other things to stress over while on tour that the last thing you need is to worry about your stage sound!

Anyways, I know the local House of Blues venues in the SoCal area have a decent backline that I feel comfortable playing on. Ampeg SVT, 8x10 etc. I used my Aguilar head once on their cabs but often times the hassle isn't worth it.

 

[Dkerwood]

I just always get specifics on backline bass gear before heading out. That helps me to know that we're not dealing with a 100W Crate combo. If I can't get specifics on drum and bass backline, we'll usually bring drums and bass just in case. 3 out of 4 times, they ask to use OUR gear as backline just because it's better quality than what they have.

The only time in recent history that I can recall my bassist using backline over her own rig was an outdoor festival that featured a big ole Ampeg 810 rig. Now that I think about it, I remember her using a Peavey with two 410 cabs once when we opened for a local band a couple of years ago - that was their gear, but it was before she had picked up her bigger rig.

My drummer has used someone else's kit once, to my recollection... no, twice. Once he used mine due to logistical issues of getting his kit to the gig. I can think of about a half dozen times, however, that other bands playing before us have asked to use his kit or my bassist's rig.

I think I would have a problem with using a backline guitar amp, but only because I have a few tones on my amp that I can't quickly reproduce any other way. The stuff on my pedalboard would be fine, but it's that onboard stuff that hangs me up. Of course, I've never run into a situation where I've needed to use backline for guitar.

Let me just completely clarify what I've said - I don't trust backline until I know exactly what it is. If the promoter doesn't know, the gear still goes in the car. If the promoter can't tell me about stage monitors, we'll throw a pair of those and an amp into the car.

I'll be the first to admit that we play more small shows than large shows, which is why I feel the way I do about backline. Too many times we've shown up for gigs with "provided PA and backline" and found a Kustom PA pushing 120W, a Peavey or Crate 12" bass combo, and some Japanese drum set with heads covered with packing tape from the 70s.

I can't believe, though, that a professional backline would be less than appropriate. Sometimes those boutique amps, however, are a little fussy...