the 60's custom shop pickups are not staggered but they do sound great in a "hot vintage" kind of way.
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"J" pickups discussion and comparisons.
- Thread starter SMASH
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I actually have the CS60's in bass a Jazz now. They actually are slightly staggered...very slightly - nowhere near where'd I'd like them to be.
Smash you raised concerns about your strings hitting the pole pieces of your new PU's. An easy remedy is to pop the coils out of their shells, put a couple of pieces of one sided foam tape (I use windowdoor insulation tape) on the top of the coils and then pop them back together. That recesses the pole pieces just enough so that there's no gaps but they're not sticking out too much.
I think bpresource's comments on the CS60's tone is right on the money.
Smash you raised concerns about your strings hitting the pole pieces of your new PU's. An easy remedy is to pop the coils out of their shells, put a couple of pieces of one sided foam tape (I use windowdoor insulation tape) on the top of the coils and then pop them back together. That recesses the pole pieces just enough so that there's no gaps but they're not sticking out too much.
I think bpresource's comments on the CS60's tone is right on the money.
Aero Type 1 and Type 3.
I decided to group these two together because, despite their price difference the sound is very similar. However, there is a noticeable difference and "big tone" junkies would likely prefer the Type 3. At least I do, but though not by much.
These pickups are extremely articulate and sound very much like my '74 J p'up. VERY much. As an attempt to cop a vintage tone, these Aeros truly succeed. They're more balanced though, with a tighter bottom and more & sweeter highs. The Type 3 has a bit more beef to it, while still managing to retain great clarity. The Aero site descibes the difference as "dark pleasant distortion sound", but that makes them sound a bit more radical than they are.
IMO these pickups contain any sound you'd want to hear, and beyond that you can EQ in what you like best. They don't add a radical colour though, like the DiMarzio Model Js or SD Antiquity IIs do.
Type 1 are single coil, Alnico 5, two conductor. Type 3s are Alnico 2. These take about a month to arrive. Larry is extremely informative and giving of his time, and the packing is great. They have very long wires and tidy ends to compensate for your soldering mishaps, and he even included his recommended capacitors.
They're even more open with his .022 capacitors, but I prefer the slightly choked stock Fender 1k. On the phone though, Larry was adamant about the .022 caps. Fair enough, he should be proud of the sound he's achieved and wish it to be heard unadulterated. As for me, deviations from stock on this particular bass gives me the heebie jeebies.
Aero Type 1 / 3
Warmth: 4 / 4.5
Clarity: 4.5 / 4
Output: 4 / 4
Punch : 4 / 4
Amplified Sound: 4.5 / 5
Recorded Sound: 4 / 4.5
Value: 5 / 3.5
Warmth: 4 / 4.5 - They're not the thick kinda warm, but they do have a present bottom and the highs are not shrill. Theyre' warm, but not the kind of warm that can help compensate for less then elegant playing (like mine). There is an organic richness to the tone, without an artificial "phatness". The Type 3's have more beef, hence the extra .5
Clarity: 4.5 / 4 - Very broad and balanced spectrum of sound. Surprisingly so. Neat trick. Much more balanced across the spectrum than any of the other pickups I've tried. That's also true of the Type 3s, but what they add in beef they perhaps lack in overall clarity. They're still very well-balanced though. Why BP gave these a comparatively low "Clarity" mark (and equal to the Antiquity II's "Clarity" mark) I have no idea. In my thinking "clarity" can be a bit of a slag, but not in the case of the Aeros.
Output: 4 / 4 - A bit more juice than the stock vintage pickups. Like with the "Warmth" score, if you don't care for a freakishy high output, consider these a 5.
Punch : 4 / 4 - Tight sound and thereby more clean punch than stock. Again, if you prefer not to have an unnatural kick then consider these a 5.
Amplified Sound: 4.5 / 5 - Type 1 aren't that expensive at $75 each and IMO would turn a bland newer MIA J bass (as I said before those p'ups must be replaced) to a very swank and articulate sounding bass. Type 3 are as good, with a noticeable bit more oomph.
Recorded Sound: 4 /4.5 - In some ways these make me re-think my feelings for the other p'ups I've reviewed positively. These make my RB5, which is an awesome recording bass, sound a bit honky by comparison. The DiMarzio Model Js sound dull/dumb by comparison, but of course that works perfectly for some things - I love those Model J's through an Aquilar preamp, just so you know where I'm coming from. "Horses for courses" as they say. As I said above, they sound an amazing amount like the stock '74s which were originally in the bass I tried these in. That's a good thing.
Value: 5 / 3.5 - I can't imagine for $75 each you'll get a better, full-yet-clear vintage-y tone than this. The Type 3s get only a 3.5 because, while they sound "better" to me and worth the extra money, you don't get as big a difference in sound as you do in price - $125 each (including $5 for covers). But if this is the sound you're after, the Type 3 will still seem like a steal. If you're unsure, try the Type 1 instead - you'd have no trouble selling that at cost if you want to upgrade to Type 3 later.
The bassline - For most of what I do I prefer the colour pickups like the Antiquity IIs add, but these Aeros have a real class to their tone without being weak that I really like the sound of. These Aeros are ideal for those with skill who want the full spectrum at their fingertips, with good tone at any frequency, and who want to hear their playing truly shine yet hit hard. http://www.aeroinstrument.com
BP said :
Warmth: 5
Clarity: 3.5
Output: 4
Amplified Sound: 5
Recorded Sound: 4
Value: 4.5
Heavy lows, distinct upper mids, and round
top that's cool for fingerstyle rock, blues, and
country. (And '70s-style funk.) Broken-in vibe
that's fun to play. On tape, pickups have big
bottom for a J, although the tone can geta bit
thick.
Harmony-Central reviews : Invalid Link Removed
I decided to group these two together because, despite their price difference the sound is very similar. However, there is a noticeable difference and "big tone" junkies would likely prefer the Type 3. At least I do, but though not by much.
These pickups are extremely articulate and sound very much like my '74 J p'up. VERY much. As an attempt to cop a vintage tone, these Aeros truly succeed. They're more balanced though, with a tighter bottom and more & sweeter highs. The Type 3 has a bit more beef to it, while still managing to retain great clarity. The Aero site descibes the difference as "dark pleasant distortion sound", but that makes them sound a bit more radical than they are.
IMO these pickups contain any sound you'd want to hear, and beyond that you can EQ in what you like best. They don't add a radical colour though, like the DiMarzio Model Js or SD Antiquity IIs do.
Type 1 are single coil, Alnico 5, two conductor. Type 3s are Alnico 2. These take about a month to arrive. Larry is extremely informative and giving of his time, and the packing is great. They have very long wires and tidy ends to compensate for your soldering mishaps, and he even included his recommended capacitors.
They're even more open with his .022 capacitors, but I prefer the slightly choked stock Fender 1k. On the phone though, Larry was adamant about the .022 caps. Fair enough, he should be proud of the sound he's achieved and wish it to be heard unadulterated. As for me, deviations from stock on this particular bass gives me the heebie jeebies.
Aero Type 1 / 3
Warmth: 4 / 4.5
Clarity: 4.5 / 4
Output: 4 / 4
Punch : 4 / 4
Amplified Sound: 4.5 / 5
Recorded Sound: 4 / 4.5
Value: 5 / 3.5
Warmth: 4 / 4.5 - They're not the thick kinda warm, but they do have a present bottom and the highs are not shrill. Theyre' warm, but not the kind of warm that can help compensate for less then elegant playing (like mine). There is an organic richness to the tone, without an artificial "phatness". The Type 3's have more beef, hence the extra .5
Clarity: 4.5 / 4 - Very broad and balanced spectrum of sound. Surprisingly so. Neat trick. Much more balanced across the spectrum than any of the other pickups I've tried. That's also true of the Type 3s, but what they add in beef they perhaps lack in overall clarity. They're still very well-balanced though. Why BP gave these a comparatively low "Clarity" mark (and equal to the Antiquity II's "Clarity" mark) I have no idea. In my thinking "clarity" can be a bit of a slag, but not in the case of the Aeros.
Output: 4 / 4 - A bit more juice than the stock vintage pickups. Like with the "Warmth" score, if you don't care for a freakishy high output, consider these a 5.
Punch : 4 / 4 - Tight sound and thereby more clean punch than stock. Again, if you prefer not to have an unnatural kick then consider these a 5.
Amplified Sound: 4.5 / 5 - Type 1 aren't that expensive at $75 each and IMO would turn a bland newer MIA J bass (as I said before those p'ups must be replaced) to a very swank and articulate sounding bass. Type 3 are as good, with a noticeable bit more oomph.
Recorded Sound: 4 /4.5 - In some ways these make me re-think my feelings for the other p'ups I've reviewed positively. These make my RB5, which is an awesome recording bass, sound a bit honky by comparison. The DiMarzio Model Js sound dull/dumb by comparison, but of course that works perfectly for some things - I love those Model J's through an Aquilar preamp, just so you know where I'm coming from. "Horses for courses" as they say. As I said above, they sound an amazing amount like the stock '74s which were originally in the bass I tried these in. That's a good thing.
Value: 5 / 3.5 - I can't imagine for $75 each you'll get a better, full-yet-clear vintage-y tone than this. The Type 3s get only a 3.5 because, while they sound "better" to me and worth the extra money, you don't get as big a difference in sound as you do in price - $125 each (including $5 for covers). But if this is the sound you're after, the Type 3 will still seem like a steal. If you're unsure, try the Type 1 instead - you'd have no trouble selling that at cost if you want to upgrade to Type 3 later.
The bassline - For most of what I do I prefer the colour pickups like the Antiquity IIs add, but these Aeros have a real class to their tone without being weak that I really like the sound of. These Aeros are ideal for those with skill who want the full spectrum at their fingertips, with good tone at any frequency, and who want to hear their playing truly shine yet hit hard. http://www.aeroinstrument.com
BP said :
Warmth: 5
Clarity: 3.5
Output: 4
Amplified Sound: 5
Recorded Sound: 4
Value: 4.5
Heavy lows, distinct upper mids, and round
top that's cool for fingerstyle rock, blues, and
country. (And '70s-style funk.) Broken-in vibe
that's fun to play. On tape, pickups have big
bottom for a J, although the tone can geta bit
thick.
Harmony-Central reviews : Invalid Link Removed
Larry Pollack (maker of Aero Pickups) comments :
Some additional clarification about setup height (getting the pickups into a window where it will work correctly, and not necessarily the sweet spot) is as follows:
Aero Alnico 5 (e.g. J Bass 4 Type 1) is 5/32" from the top of the pole piece to the bottom of the string, with the string depressed at the 12th fret (some people use the last fret).
Aero Alnico 2 (e.g. J Bass 4 Type 3) is 3/32" from the top of the pole piece to the bottom of the string, with the string depressed at the 12th fret.
If the magnet (not necessarily the pickup) is too low the bass fundamental response will disappear. If it's too close to the string the note will "warble."
A little adjustment for Alnico 5, approximately 1/32" or less, up or down is to taste. Alnico 2 is less forgiving.
Best Regards,
Larry J Pollack
Some additional clarification about setup height (getting the pickups into a window where it will work correctly, and not necessarily the sweet spot) is as follows:
Aero Alnico 5 (e.g. J Bass 4 Type 1) is 5/32" from the top of the pole piece to the bottom of the string, with the string depressed at the 12th fret (some people use the last fret).
Aero Alnico 2 (e.g. J Bass 4 Type 3) is 3/32" from the top of the pole piece to the bottom of the string, with the string depressed at the 12th fret.
If the magnet (not necessarily the pickup) is too low the bass fundamental response will disappear. If it's too close to the string the note will "warble."
A little adjustment for Alnico 5, approximately 1/32" or less, up or down is to taste. Alnico 2 is less forgiving.
Best Regards,
Larry J Pollack
If anyone is interested in learning about the new Nordstrand single coils, I would be happy to post some info in this thread, as it seems like this would be the place to do it. 
Actually SMASH has two sets he's going to review when he gets a chance. I can't wait to see what he has to say...
SMASH,
Didn't realize that you were lucky enough to already have a pair of Nordstrands for review!
For those who don't know, there are currently two models of Nordstrand pickups available for purchase (NJ4 and NJ4SE), which are the same custom pickups that Carey uses on his amazing basses. The NJ4 set is made to vintage specs, using alnico 5 magnets and formvar wire...just like they used in Leo's factory 40 years ago. They're wound with that classic early '60s L-series Fender in mind and have a very sweet top end with an even response, great clarity and killer snap!
The other set (NJ4SE) is geared more for the modern player, with the tone being a bit more aggressive and slap friendly. The NJ4SEs are similar to the NJ4s, but are hum-canceling split coils (like a P pickup), so you don't have to deal with the noise and 60 cycle hum associated with a true single coil. While this set delivers a classic jazz single coil tone with zero noice, these pickups have a bit more growl and punch than their vintage-spec brothers. Overall, you get a choice of two great single coil pickups that are equally at home in a vintage jazz or a modern slap machine. Also, they're drop-in replacements for standard jazz pickup routes, so you don't have to modify anything on your jazz bass....just pop 'em in and go!
The other great thing about Nordstrands is that you can expect the same quality from the pickups as you can from Carey's basses. Carey has invested in a custom pickup winding maching that can reproduce a random, hand-wound pickup pattern. The benefit to the player is that you get the superior tone of a random, hand-wound pickup with the consistancy of an automated process that can be reproduced over and over again.
Those are just some general specs and some background information....I'd really like to hear what SMASH has to say in his evaluation.
Didn't realize that you were lucky enough to already have a pair of Nordstrands for review!
For those who don't know, there are currently two models of Nordstrand pickups available for purchase (NJ4 and NJ4SE), which are the same custom pickups that Carey uses on his amazing basses. The NJ4 set is made to vintage specs, using alnico 5 magnets and formvar wire...just like they used in Leo's factory 40 years ago. They're wound with that classic early '60s L-series Fender in mind and have a very sweet top end with an even response, great clarity and killer snap!The other set (NJ4SE) is geared more for the modern player, with the tone being a bit more aggressive and slap friendly. The NJ4SEs are similar to the NJ4s, but are hum-canceling split coils (like a P pickup), so you don't have to deal with the noise and 60 cycle hum associated with a true single coil. While this set delivers a classic jazz single coil tone with zero noice, these pickups have a bit more growl and punch than their vintage-spec brothers. Overall, you get a choice of two great single coil pickups that are equally at home in a vintage jazz or a modern slap machine. Also, they're drop-in replacements for standard jazz pickup routes, so you don't have to modify anything on your jazz bass....just pop 'em in and go!
The other great thing about Nordstrands is that you can expect the same quality from the pickups as you can from Carey's basses. Carey has invested in a custom pickup winding maching that can reproduce a random, hand-wound pickup pattern. The benefit to the player is that you get the superior tone of a random, hand-wound pickup with the consistancy of an automated process that can be reproduced over and over again.
Those are just some general specs and some background information....I'd really like to hear what SMASH has to say in his evaluation.
Great work SMASH!
For people that inquired about UltraJazz pups, I am currently using a set with a J-retro. I have not used them in standard passive mode, but several high end Jazz basses come stock with them, including Lull if I remember rightly. I replaced a set of SD Antiquities (NOT the Antiquity IIs that SMASH tested). The Antiquities had a very nice vintage Jazz vibe, but seemed to lack a little punch when in a live band mix. When I pulled them and dropped in the UltraJazz's, the sound remained, but more of it. Now, my bass cuts through very nicely, and of course there is no 60cycle hum. They work well with the J-retro, although I seldom have to run it at anything other than dead flat. My bass has a heavy ash body and I use TI Flats.
To sum up, I think the UltraJazz pups are a refined version of the model J, sort of like a cross between model J and vintage pups.
They cured my GAS!
For people that inquired about UltraJazz pups, I am currently using a set with a J-retro. I have not used them in standard passive mode, but several high end Jazz basses come stock with them, including Lull if I remember rightly. I replaced a set of SD Antiquities (NOT the Antiquity IIs that SMASH tested). The Antiquities had a very nice vintage Jazz vibe, but seemed to lack a little punch when in a live band mix. When I pulled them and dropped in the UltraJazz's, the sound remained, but more of it. Now, my bass cuts through very nicely, and of course there is no 60cycle hum. They work well with the J-retro, although I seldom have to run it at anything other than dead flat. My bass has a heavy ash body and I use TI Flats.
To sum up, I think the UltraJazz pups are a refined version of the model J, sort of like a cross between model J and vintage pups.
They cured my GAS!
Smash, GREAT INFO
I'm a vintage Fender Jazz player myself. You have given me a lot to think about.
Marty, would or did you put in the J retro into your Vintage Jazz Bass.?
Basically I'm considering this and would like someone to tell me why I should or shouldn't, depending on your experience!
Treena
I'm a vintage Fender Jazz player myself. You have given me a lot to think about.
Marty, would or did you put in the J retro into your Vintage Jazz Bass.?
Basically I'm considering this and would like someone to tell me why I should or shouldn't, depending on your experience!
TreenaTreena, I am thankful when anyone finds these reviews helpful or amusing but it is especially rewarding that someone of your skill and experience finds them worthwhile.
I hope Marty gives you his take, but while I'm here ... I've used both the J-Retro and BTB01 aka "P-Retro" (the treble, bass, pull bright circuit from the J-Retro in a single knob configuration) and have recently sold both.
I found the J-Retro to be an impressive preamp with a variety of good solid tones. However what I didn't like was that even when set flat it adds a lot of colour to the tone. It's a fine shade, but if you want the real deal it isn't there. You can go passive, but (from what I understand from John East) the generic impedance of the device isn't necessarily ideal for all pickups and in my case my '74's sounded better/different in passive with the stock plate and controls (those too, being so old and clearly well travelled in bars, might have been imparting their own colour on the sound). I eventually went with the stock p'ups and controls (and I prefer a bass that old and with the character it has - see here http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97683 - to be stock if it's all the same.
Keep in mind the old caveat that we all have our preferences. Through my Ashdowns I might not need a beef boost that an SWR user might like. In a straight-up blues rock gig I might not need the versatility - in fact extra knobs and switches might get in the way of my performing (I don't like that the stacked knobs stick out much further than the stock knobs). With certain pickups, I saw no point in even trying it. The last thing my Jazz with LaBella flats, Rosewood board, and Antiquity II p'ups needs is some kind of extra colouring. Know what I mean?
Still, it does allow the character of your pickups to be heard. EMGs I tried still sounded exactly like EMGs.
Ultimately I decided the same as I do with all of these things - that it's great to beef up a dodgy signal but if you like what you've got to start with and the skills then I doubt you "need" the extra gadgetry. If you're playing a great variety of styles you might like the sounds at your fingertips, though in studio you might not like the noise it can introduce. For want of just a boost in "oomph" one might prefer the (free) series mod.
And if you want to stick with a vintage tone but with more cream, I suggest you'd prefer the Sadowsky. It doesn't have the variety, but it has one damn sweet sound - *if* you have a good sound to start with, it isn't obtuse enough to make a bunk signal sound sweeter like the J-Retro can ... and even then I prefer the Aguilar 924 though it is outboard and pretty dumb feature-wise, which I mention to help you understand where I'm coming from.
I hope Marty gives you his take, but while I'm here ... I've used both the J-Retro and BTB01 aka "P-Retro" (the treble, bass, pull bright circuit from the J-Retro in a single knob configuration) and have recently sold both.
I found the J-Retro to be an impressive preamp with a variety of good solid tones. However what I didn't like was that even when set flat it adds a lot of colour to the tone. It's a fine shade, but if you want the real deal it isn't there. You can go passive, but (from what I understand from John East) the generic impedance of the device isn't necessarily ideal for all pickups and in my case my '74's sounded better/different in passive with the stock plate and controls (those too, being so old and clearly well travelled in bars, might have been imparting their own colour on the sound). I eventually went with the stock p'ups and controls (and I prefer a bass that old and with the character it has - see here http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97683 - to be stock if it's all the same.
Keep in mind the old caveat that we all have our preferences. Through my Ashdowns I might not need a beef boost that an SWR user might like. In a straight-up blues rock gig I might not need the versatility - in fact extra knobs and switches might get in the way of my performing (I don't like that the stacked knobs stick out much further than the stock knobs). With certain pickups, I saw no point in even trying it. The last thing my Jazz with LaBella flats, Rosewood board, and Antiquity II p'ups needs is some kind of extra colouring. Know what I mean?
Still, it does allow the character of your pickups to be heard. EMGs I tried still sounded exactly like EMGs.
Ultimately I decided the same as I do with all of these things - that it's great to beef up a dodgy signal but if you like what you've got to start with and the skills then I doubt you "need" the extra gadgetry. If you're playing a great variety of styles you might like the sounds at your fingertips, though in studio you might not like the noise it can introduce. For want of just a boost in "oomph" one might prefer the (free) series mod.
And if you want to stick with a vintage tone but with more cream, I suggest you'd prefer the Sadowsky. It doesn't have the variety, but it has one damn sweet sound - *if* you have a good sound to start with, it isn't obtuse enough to make a bunk signal sound sweeter like the J-Retro can ... and even then I prefer the Aguilar 924 though it is outboard and pretty dumb feature-wise, which I mention to help you understand where I'm coming from.
Smash that's a great looking 74 Jazz bass. Yes, I did find your reviews to be very informative.
I really like my tone as it is right now. I have a Fender elite I with the active pickups and I also have a Yamaha RBX800A with active P/J pickups. I find both these basses to sound compressed and I know it has to do with the active electronics.
The sound is okay for live work but I hate them for the studio.
I don't think I would like the active pups in my vintage Jazz bass either, now that I have a clearer understanding of how they sound.
Thanks for your input!
What a great position you are in. I recently purchased a Fender Noel Redding Jazz. And,although it is in excellent shape for a 97, I am really curious about replacing the 60's vintage pickups with the Van Zant vintage J replacements. I have heard that the Van Zant pickups are THE pickup for authentic vintage tone. Any thoughts or experience in this area? Thanks for your time.
Rich
Rich
Treena; my Jazz is a hybrid, I no longer own a vintage Jazz. It all depends on what you want. I built my bass the way it is because I was in a stripping down mood. I went from having 8 BGs, 1 EUB, and 1 DB, to having 1 BG and 1 DB (because I play mainly DB these days). Consequently I wanted 1 BG that would "do everything". Hence the humbuckers and the J-retro. If you have multiple basses, I see no reason to install a J-retro in a vintage instrument. You will definitely change the vibe and the sound. Having said that, there is a VITAL part of the J-retro that many overlook, but I feel is the single most important feature. One problem with stock Jazz's is that the pups need to be of equal volume when in areas of high RF interference, in order to reduce hum. But of course you know that. The downside to that is that they load each other down, and so the sound of both pups on full is not quite as good as when one is favoured. The J-retro is one of the very few preamps to address this, by featuring two buffer preamps, one for each pup. Consequently, you can sweep thru the range of the pups with no change to the quality of the sound. In my opinion, this feature alone is worth the price of the J-retro.
I love this thread.
Marty, yes I know the feeling of needing to strip down my equipment. I have 15 electric basses 2 acoustics and 1 Upright.
I do tons of studio work and I find having a variety of basses with different string setups to be helpful when looking for a certain sound. I can't find ONE- BG that can do it all. This thread has given me a lot to think about.
Treena
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