it is fully written out.... I wouldn't know for sure about donna lee.. but 100% of his compostions solos are written out... In some interview marcus miller says he finds that disapointing... but still... all i can say is wow... written out or not... he played them..
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Jaco on Donna Lee. Is it improvised or not?
- Thread starter odin70
- Start date
If that is the case i tend to agree with mr. Miller. But the music is still fantastic and he is still the king.
I've read interviews with Marcus Miller and Jeff Berlin where they both say that Jaco played Donna Lee and most of his other material the same every night during the Jaco gigs that they attended - no improv or ad libbing.
On a side note, I really wish they mixed these songs better. I know they sound great on my hi-fi stereo system, but in my car, I always miss the essence of a Jaco. I wish the mids were just a tad higher so I could really feel what he was playing. Am I doing something wrong? lol
no again.
here is jaco improvising on a jazz standard.
i almost positive you are mistaken about what was said in that interview. if its the one im thinking about what marcus said is that we was disappioned to find out that the havona solo was spliced together from 2 or 3 passes. so it wasnt 100% live and spontaneous, but each pass was improvised and the highlights of each pass were used to construct the final take.
here is jaco improvising on a jazz standard.
i almost positive you are mistaken about what was said in that interview. if its the one im thinking about what marcus said is that we was disappioned to find out that the havona solo was spliced together from 2 or 3 passes. so it wasnt 100% live and spontaneous, but each pass was improvised and the highlights of each pass were used to construct the final take.
Roy Vogt
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Conventional wisdom is that Jaco composed the solo for Donna Lee before he recorded it. I've heard that from several sources. Apparently, Havona was the result of 4 punch-ins in the studio and was composed as well-although it may have been composed in the studio as solo takes and not written out.
Regarding Jaco not swinging-I'm surprised that Whit didn't notice that the whole tune is in a 2:3 clave and Jaco's playing straight 8th throughout. I didn't notice that until a Cuban musician pointed it out to me in Miami myself. I think I was so bedazzled by the notes I didn't get that far when I first looked at it.
I've posted this before, but here's Rick Suchow's mash-up of Jaco, Charlie Parker and the Jamey Aebersold playalong track. I think it's cool that Jaco nails the changes!
http://www.ricksuchow.com/music-47.html
Lest anyone think this takes away from him as a Musician, Pat Metheny has been known to record a solo a section at a time and then relearn the solo and record it in one pass. At one point I ran into the Assisting Engineer on Jeff Berlin's Champion album (his first solo record-it's been repackaged as Crossroads on Denon) and he swore up and down that Jeff did the same thing. Jeff says he didn't, FWIW. In the studio I think it's totally legal and I've done it myself........
If you're a Jaco-phile I totally recommend The Jaco Pastorius Bass Method by Ray Peterson (Ray was one of Jaco's students in the early 70s). I'm working through that with some of my students and having a ball with it!
Regarding Jaco not swinging-I'm surprised that Whit didn't notice that the whole tune is in a 2:3 clave and Jaco's playing straight 8th throughout. I didn't notice that until a Cuban musician pointed it out to me in Miami myself. I think I was so bedazzled by the notes I didn't get that far when I first looked at it.
I've posted this before, but here's Rick Suchow's mash-up of Jaco, Charlie Parker and the Jamey Aebersold playalong track. I think it's cool that Jaco nails the changes!
http://www.ricksuchow.com/music-47.html
Lest anyone think this takes away from him as a Musician, Pat Metheny has been known to record a solo a section at a time and then relearn the solo and record it in one pass. At one point I ran into the Assisting Engineer on Jeff Berlin's Champion album (his first solo record-it's been repackaged as Crossroads on Denon) and he swore up and down that Jeff did the same thing. Jeff says he didn't, FWIW. In the studio I think it's totally legal and I've done it myself........
If you're a Jaco-phile I totally recommend The Jaco Pastorius Bass Method by Ray Peterson (Ray was one of Jaco's students in the early 70s). I'm working through that with some of my students and having a ball with it!
Roy Vogt
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I'd pay the extra $ and get the 20 bit remastered CD. It was mixed and mastered for vinyl, so the first CD wasn't as nice sounding (although ironically the cassette was). I never had Jaco on 8 track.....
That's funny!
I have heard Jaco's version and the Miles/Bird version played over top each other and found it near identical. Wether Jaco learned the original and practiced over it so much it just became his own, who knows. ..... But, when you look back Jaco only did this type of treatment to one tune, Donna Lee and then a slightly similar treatment when recording Blackbird on Word of Mouth. ...... As stated Jaco did have a photographic memory when it came to hearing something once and repeating it. .....
Interesting debate.
PS: I just spotted Roy's post. ..... Very cool, thanks.
just like my mom used to tell me, Jeff and Whit are just jealous.
Jazz musician's insecurities and the need to be the "baddest mother!@#$%" and the most capable or whatever sure does produce a lot smacktalk and music that is crappy to actually listen to. Bob Moses has a pretty great approach to premeditation of ideas vs. flailing improvisation and how this relates to the music that is actually being made in his book "Drum Wisdom", which is out of print can be found for free online.
Jazz musician's insecurities and the need to be the "baddest mother!@#$%" and the most capable or whatever sure does produce a lot smacktalk and music that is crappy to actually listen to. Bob Moses has a pretty great approach to premeditation of ideas vs. flailing improvisation and how this relates to the music that is actually being made in his book "Drum Wisdom", which is out of print can be found for free online.
Roy Vogt
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If you go through the Omnibook you quickly realize that Parker has his own Pet Licks he uses in most tunes. I think this is the norm for most Jazz Musicians at any level. The good ones make it sound spontaneous all the time.
Chick Corea wrote an old article in Contemporary Keyboard called "The Myth of Improvisation" that pointed this out.
Personally, if I go back in my Lick Bag there's stuff from Scott Henderson, Carlos Santana, Clifford Brown, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Pat Martino, Larry Coryell, Wes Montgomery, Chick, Herbie and others. I tried to avoid bassists, but Jaco, Stanley, Jimmy Haslip, Victors Wooten and Bailey, Gerald Veasley and Scott LaFaro are in there as well, I'm sure....
Chick Corea wrote an old article in Contemporary Keyboard called "The Myth of Improvisation" that pointed this out.
Personally, if I go back in my Lick Bag there's stuff from Scott Henderson, Carlos Santana, Clifford Brown, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Pat Martino, Larry Coryell, Wes Montgomery, Chick, Herbie and others. I tried to avoid bassists, but Jaco, Stanley, Jimmy Haslip, Victors Wooten and Bailey, Gerald Veasley and Scott LaFaro are in there as well, I'm sure....
Interesting. I once asked Jeff about the same thing (regarding Pump It) He did not answer. I suspect that his solos on that record where more or less composed.
You are right about that. Its pretty much the same licks over and over. But i must say i would me very suprised and dissapointed if i found out that Parker composed his solos in the studio. Its just not a part of that tradition..and imo it would be wrong. To me its different with Jaco, Berlin and yourself. Because you are not purely jazz players. Jaco could imo get away with it because of Come on come over.
Roy Vogt
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Both Champion and Pump It have a Jeff style that appears to be based on Classical phrasing. These are 25 year old recordings so he's changed everything since then, especially since he started doing trio recordings.odin70 said:
I'd pay the extra $ and get the 20 bit remastered CD. It was mixed and mastered for vinyl, so the first CD wasn't as nice sounding (although ironically the cassette was). I never had Jaco on 8 track.....
+billion
I would like a non compressed version of the songs to download. Never going to happen. But I would imagine whoever owns the original tapes must be patiently waiting for the go ahead to release them...
Roy Vogt
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With the exception of Les Paul's early experiments, multi-track recording wasn't even on the table when Bird was recording. Everything was mixed "on the fly" by the recording engineer. That makes all of those "Bird with Strings" recordings even more amazing, IMO.
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a Jazz Artist today who didn't punch in from time to time. Maybe Wynton......
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
