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Jaco-Tone: Do you really like it?

#141
Just finished listening to 'Joni Mitchell - Don Juan's Reckless Daughter'.

Really good production and performance....Jaco really fits with Jonis voice imo.....a lot is his note selection...still he sounds like a trombone imo!

Not that 'imitating a trombone' is a bad thing.....its pretty cool...I grew up with horns in school band, they tried their best to make me play trombone, I insisted on trumpet.
 
#143
I think that you have to judge his tone in the context of the times when he came out with his first album a lot of you probably weren't even alive and maybe don't realize what a major departure from traditional Jazz Bass sound his sound was. Before that most recordings didn't have a lot of bass. Vinyl required that most of the low end be removed at mastering so that the cutting head on the mastering equipment could follow the music. So take away the low end and you have midrange left. Another factor is that Jaco had a different concept of his function in the music. He didn't just play the groove. His ability to play the groove and be himself is one the great things about him. I think that his tone was a reflection of that.
 
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#144
I don't think the dry, woody, mid range growl that Jaco is known for is good for everything. However, what it is good for, it is excellent for. If you want quick, biting articulation that allows for a light touch, it is the best. It is almost hard not to do quick runs when you get that tone. In the right context, I love it.
There are many situations where it is too forward and might be distracting in a simple arrangement with a light mix. In super heavy music with a lot of unison playing, it just gets lost. It isn't "heavy" and doesn't take drive very well.
 
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#145
JimmyM said:
Yeah, I know Jaco was revolutionary. He was immensely talented and wrote many great tunes that have become standards not only in the bass community but the entire jazz community as well. So let's get this disclaimer out of the way: I do not want this to turn into a "Jaco was great/Jaco sucked" thread like most Jaco discussions. The quality of Jaco's playing is not in question here. If you don't like his music and choose to voice that opinion, start your own weekly Jaco sucks thread with the 500 other ones. I happen to think he was brilliant, and while he's not my favorite bassist, there's no question of his brilliance, at least before he started drinking.

I, on the other hand, am questioning the quality of his tone, specifically the bridge pickup/Acoustic 360 tone. I have always hated that tone. Yes, like most bassists, I have experimented with that tone, but it never lasts long, especially on my fretless. I think it's honky and annoying, especially when other bassists emulate it. I think bass should actually have some bass response, and Jaco-Tone is almost all high mids.

Strangely enough, it wasn't enough for Jaco to roll off the neck pickup, which is high-middy enough. He had to use an Acoustic 360 amp/301 speaker, which in my humble opinion, is a godawful brittle sounding amp.

And yet, a whole legion of Jacophiles actually worship that tone and try to get it out of their gear. What am I missing here? Am I the only Jaco fan who hates his tone? Am I the only person in the world who wants to take a wire cutter and use it on the strings of any bassist who makes their bass "mwah" like Jaco?
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Yes, on his debut solo album, and on that glorious trio of records with Joni. That said, live? I'm not so sure.

What I don't get is.... that rasty, practically distorted tone so many bass players seem to like these days. I'll take Jaco burp'n'mwah over that any day.

END+ERA+Long+time+60+Minutes+commentator+Andy+N-uttZYSC9Jm.jpg



(but here's the thing... I don't actually care what tone other bassists like, 'cause I don't have to have it/use it myself)
 
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#146
Marial said:
Yes, on his debut solo album, and on that glorious trio of records with Joni. That said, live? I'm not so sure.

What I don't get is.... that rasty, practically distorted tone so many bass players seem to like these days. I'll take Jaco burp'n'mwah over that any day
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Hey! That's not funny!

:D

(but here's the thing... I don't actually care what tone other bassists like, 'cause I don't have to have it/use it myself)
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Tru dat. Maybe today's me wouldn't have posted this thread, but the me of 9 years ago did. Hey, sometimes I had my moments :D
 
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#147
Philbiker said:
Some players have a tone that I personally don't like, but when they play in their style, in the context of the band they're in, it sounds great. Jaco's one of those guys. John Entwistle and Chris Squire also come to mind.

Personally I like his tone a lot more than the mid-scooped clickety-clack boom-boom that seems to be popular in jazz these days.

Sometimes when I'm playing my fretless I solo the bridge pickup, too. Not often, but sometimes.
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Lots of good stuff. True the live recordings & youtubes have a different tone. Reading Peter Erskines book right now. He says they played extremely loud. And, I'm old enough to remember no PA support for the bass even in large venues. Those 371/301s were the baddest things available to produce high dB levels. They move air.

The other thing is articulation. At those speeds you can't be boomy.
 
#148
Tremendous respect to Mr. Pastorius for his innovation, technical mastery, and advancement of the art of the bass.

That being said, when it comes to his tone, Mr. Horse from Ren and Stimpy says it best:

mr%20horse.png
 
#152
I much prefer it to the mush Pino (great player) gives us with John Mayer. I think he was limited a bit by the equipment available in that era. If you really think about it, the strides made in basses have been good but near as big as the strides in amplification. The Acoustic 360, Sunn Concert, Ampeg SVT were about the only choices for playing big halls at that time. Of the three the Accoustic while still mud probably had about the most immediacy and articulation between those amps. I saw him once with Joni Mitchell and the sound wasn't bad but the Sound guys in the particular venue didn't have any special love for bass. I would have loved to hear him in later days when he was running AMP products with Hartke.

For the record the best frettless bass tone I ever heard was Mark Egan on those early Pat Metheny Group albums. And I've seen him pull it off live more than once. Jaco had a great tone for his era, more importantly he had his own sound. Something you could say about a lot of the bands of that era, and something sadly it's very hard to say about almost anyone in this era.
 
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#153
I first read this thread over ten years ago and my thoughts now are pretty much the same, but I hope I can articulate them.

When someone mentions Jaco's tone or sound, it behoves us as proper men to really dig into what that means.

His tone, I love, for the most part. I will preface this by saying I don't hold any real love for any bass plucked softly with a hand almost over the fretboard. I know Jaco did some of that and I don't care a great deal for it, even in songs where the bandleader expressly wanted that tone. It sounds hollow and lacking to me, a bit like an upright bass.

Now, we know Jaco for mostly playing at or near the bridge pickup, with a strong midrange. I don't consider this tone so much a product of his gear as much as his technique. Give me a Jazz bass, a fretless Ken Smith, an ACG or a Modulus Quantum and I will reproduce that tone for you in a roundabout fashion through technique alone. It is based in touch; abrupt yet deft left hand muting and an assured right hand touch that put a great emphasis on controlling the attack and the decay of the plucked note through 'rest strokes' on the strings. Jaco combined this touch with a melodic and rhythmic sensibility which often had a lot in common with horn players, something which comes out particularly in some of the three note per string bebop lines he does.

This particular touch, as well as the tone it produces, was what so many players afterwards sought to emulate. Essentially, Jaco unlocked a new way of playing the bass and I don't think the raft of bassists that arrived in his wake as being derivative for seeking that same sound.

His tone always remained uniquely identifiable but it did change from recording to recording. On the 'Shadows and Light' live record, it is thick and resonant. On 'Mr Gone', it is thin and bright in places, much in keeping with the sound of Zawinul's polyphonic synths. On his self titled album, his bass sounds downright awful in places. You could always tell he was Jaco, though.


Jaco wasn't just defined by his tone though, his notes and phrasing gave him away too, moreso than his tone ever did. He was extremely successful in carving himself out a niche despite being what you might call a rather limited player inna harmonic sense. I don't profess to be a master of theory or even anywhere nesr the player that Jaco was, so please don't misunderstand me. Compared to a really proficient improviser with a deep harmonic knowledge like say, Jeff Berlin, Jaco's playing is quite simple. I don't know specifically what it is, but I'm sure a real musical academic could identify the modes which Jaco tends to favour that gives everything that flavour he liked. His resolutions, the patterns his hands took to, even the canned licks that he could transpose to different keys to play over a given chord, were all trademarks of his style.

That is not to denigrate his tremendous skill or impact as a player, rather to state that he had established his identity as a musician and he brought that to a variety of musical settings with great results.
 
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#154
I appreciate him for the monster bass player he was, innovative etc but I never really liked his tone either and it has at least a something to do with his 360's which were not very articulate and very middy, I like a bass to sound like a bass with at least some bottom.
 
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#157
Atshen said:
I think it worked in the context of Weather Report. Never heard his work with Joni Mitchell though.

I don't really like it when death metal bassists use that tone though, and a lot of 'em do.
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You need to listen to the Joni Mitchell stuff...that sort of "trombone sliding tone" seems to work very well with her voice.

I come from a strict, schooled horn background....if my instructor heard Jaco, his first reaction would be "he's trying to imitate a trombone".

I think its a cool sound.... but I agree it does not fit into much musically.

I think it works with Joni Mitchell....I could envision him just backing Joni solo with that sound.
 
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#158
Much like Charlie Parker, I suspect those live recordings sound a little different than it did to the people there. I'm not sure the recordings really picked up how much ~150 hz there was in his tone in reality. My experience with jazz bass favoring the bridge and flats is that it has some really focused low end that blends very nicely with bass drums tuned the way Erskine had his tuned. I guess what I'm saying is, when you listen to upright bass recordings on classic jazz albums, I think Paul Chambers sounds more boomy on those records than he actually did in person. Same goes for the 70s and too many mids, which I find most bass recordings from 70s fusion live to sound very mid heavy. In both cases, based on my experience with a similar set up in person, the recording sounds different than reality.
 
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