Yes for sure, I was just asking for informations if anyone have a great book or something I can learn from I will definitely get that.
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Jad Freer Sisma Mega Thread.
- Thread starter gtirard
- Start date
Yes for sure, I was just asking for informations if anyone have a great book or something I can learn from I will definitely get that.
Ok, I'll bite...
Short answer: you can always turn the volume down, but you can not always turn the volume up.
Bit longer answer: depending of the ohmage (is that a word?) used, the output can be different; a SS/class D rated at 700 Watts @ 4 Ohm will only put out around 350/400 watt @ 8 ohm, a tube amp will always put out the rated watts, independent of the ohms used. (More or less, more knowledgeable persons can chime in on this one).
Regarding your experiences with gigs; if the rigs you heard were running through a PA, you will most likely have heard the sound form the amp through a class D amplifier. The difference in sound can be attributed to the sound engineer, PA used, ...
It was pretty small live show for the first one with the 450W at 4ohm SVT 3 Pro and 900W at 4ohm Darkglass 900
At the balance before the show they didn't use the PA and start with stage amp only
Could be as simple as different bass players prefered different EQ settings on their amp to achieve the sound they like.
Too much parameters to give a definitive statement.
Too much parameters to give a definitive statement.
Sure
But at the shop with an Edward P bass 4 strings
A GK 800W solidstate class D
A Ampeg SVT3Pro Class A/B
Both EQ flat
Gain before the Clipping
Through a 610 4ohms
The Ampeg flap my pant more than the GK :/
@Franz975
Aged Horse shared this a page back and I think it explains why a tube head can move a lot of air at a lower wattage:
“What happens is that IN GENERAL, most tube amps will clip more gracefully and in a more pleasing manner than most solid state amps. This means that it's possible to drive the amp harder into clipping with a tube amp and still find the sound acceptable. This was especially true of older school solid state amps that clipped particularly ungracefully, but in recent years, designers of higher quality solid state products have closed this gap by developing ways to mimic the more graceful clipping of tube amps using a variety of soft clip, compression, limiting and dynamics management methods.
This is all part of the perception which can, when misunderstood, lead to incorrect conclusions even when there are real, perceived differences.”[/QUOTE]
Aged Horse shared this a page back and I think it explains why a tube head can move a lot of air at a lower wattage:
“What happens is that IN GENERAL, most tube amps will clip more gracefully and in a more pleasing manner than most solid state amps. This means that it's possible to drive the amp harder into clipping with a tube amp and still find the sound acceptable. This was especially true of older school solid state amps that clipped particularly ungracefully, but in recent years, designers of higher quality solid state products have closed this gap by developing ways to mimic the more graceful clipping of tube amps using a variety of soft clip, compression, limiting and dynamics management methods.
This is all part of the perception which can, when misunderstood, lead to incorrect conclusions even when there are real, perceived differences.”[/QUOTE]
I stand in front of it and feel it
And I heard one amp more than another even if I am far from them
Because both EQ's flat on the knobs doesn't mean both amps EQs are flat.
Amp makers make their amps with different tone profiles. EQs at flat actually bring out the amp's inherent tone profile, the backed-in sound that draws one to a particular amp over another. You've heard the comments "That amp set flat is the sound I've been looking for" or "Flat on this amp is my tone".
Two different amps set to 'flat' might show a tone graph like my sad drawing...
One exhibits a boost in the bass and highs with a scooped middle, while the other one shows a prominent boost in the mids. Yet on both amps, the knobs are flat or set to noon.
You may be experiencing something like that. One amp or preamp in the amp provides the sound you prefer at flat over the other.
This may be the differences you are experiencing in your post #168
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Because both EQ's flat on the knobs doesn't mean both amps EQs are flat.
Amp makers make their amps with different tone profiles. EQs at flat actually bring out the amp's inherent tone profile, the backed-in sound that draws one to a particular amp over another. You've heard the comments "That amp set flat is the sound I've been looking for" or "Flat on this amp is my tone".
Two different amps set to 'flat' might show a tone graft like my sad drawing...
View attachment 5290924
One exhibits a boost in the bass and highs with a scooped middle, while the other one shows a prominent boost in the mids. Yet on both amps, the knobs are flat or set to noon.
You may be experiencing something like that. One amp or preamp in the amp provides the sound you prefer at flat over the other.
This may be the differences you are experiencing in your post #168
Yeah maybe
Not maybe. Amps exhibit different tone profiles. Some cut through more than others, some are sought out over others for other reasons like tone and feel and not just being the most pant flapping amp around. And even if that is ones sole measure of an amp, there are many in that category.
Sometimes you just have to twist those knobs to get a better sound.
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I'm surprised to learn this. The Sisma is very robustly voiced, apparently. The first thing i noticed when firing it up was how authoritative it sounded. Like you said, i guess it all comes down to the Hz.
As far as the SVT vs Class D discussion; @Franz975 is not the first person to notice or think that "tube watts" are somehow more than "D watts". It seems to be one of the ongoing debates, or misunderstandings, here on TB. So although factually incorrect, there seems to be something there (the voicing, clipping?) that causes this perception in a number of folks. One reason may be that an SVT is typically an 810 system, whereas Class Ds are more typically with smaller/more efficient systems(?). I've seen freq graphs of an SVT head, but never a mic'd cab. It'd be interesting to see what that looks like.
All that said, there is definitely something about standing in front of an SVT that IME, cannot be convincingly replicated with anything else. A BIG part of it is the cab. But who wants to move the damn thing!
Yes the 810 cab is a big part of the SVT tone, sound, and presence in a room. Running the class D through an 810 is going to be different than running it through a super 12 or 210.
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A bunch of class D amps being compared that won't change anything here
All sounding about the same through the same cabinet. Which also adds or subtracts from the equation as a speaker cabinet also adds an overall tone profile to the mix.
All sounding about the same through the same cabinet. Which also adds or subtracts from the equation as a speaker cabinet also adds an overall tone profile to the mix.
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Exactly
We all have different feeling with those things
But to end that discussion for myself.
The live show I seen with the Svt3pro, darkglass 500 and darkglass 900
Only the SVT and 900W were okay that night
The 500W "cut through", was clanky (like the 900W) but didn't have the balls
Once again, that can be attributed to different EQ settings, different basses, different players.
Yup
I bet I can twist some knobs on that STV-3Pro and make it sound thin and lifeless compared to a class D amp.
It's my specialty.
Back in the 'early '70s when I was at (probably) a similar stage as Franz in my bass education, there was no TB or anything like it to go to to learn from. Books, magazine articles, music store employees, older musicians I got to know, etc., is where I learned about all this stuff. Now, we have the world library, the interwebz to gain knowledge.
I got the feeling from @agedhorse that would be a similar price point if Mesa brought back a full tube bass head in today's world.
You’re young.
Stick around long enough, and your BACK (spinal column and associated muscles) will begin to tell you which sounds better: an Ampeg SVT or a class D head!
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