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Jad Freer Sisma Mega Thread.

#141
Franz975 said:
Why is there that much volume difference when I hear a 100W tube amp (clean) and a 500W Class D clean ? :/

Because the Tube one sound way bigger and the solid state one sounded super thin and didn't push that much air in comparison.

Hearing a Mesa Carbine M6 compare to a Darkglass 900W was the same feeling.
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Assuming all things are equal (speaker cabinet, bass, player, etc.) I think you are hearing the difference in tone, or the tube amp is running at a higher level of distortion.
Neither the Darkglass or the Mesa have tube output stages which is what we are talking about.
The existence of a tube in the pre-amp section would only change the voicing and not the power output of an amp.
FWIW, I own an SVT and a Showman head and am very much a fan of tube heads. Not because of output power but rather how the react. Tube outputs can have a lovely bloom and/or compression when pushed. Others love the overdrive / distortion of a tube head being pushed.
If an SVT weighed 10 lbs., I would use it the most.
 
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#142
Franz975 said:
Why is there that much volume difference when I hear a 100W tube amp (clean) and a 500W Class D clean ? :/

Because the Tube one sound way bigger and the solid state one sounded super thin and didn't push that much air in comparison.

Hearing a Mesa Carbine M6 compare to a Darkglass 900W was the same feeling.
Click to expand...

Very, very different voicings.

Franz975 said:
I didn't wanted to talk about efficiency but just the output we hear.

The louder guitar amp I heard for the moment was a Mesa Boogie MarkIIC+, 90W, that was way way louder than a 100W solid state guitar amp.

The SS amp was cranked high and it didn't hurt my ears, the Tube one was way too loud at low volume
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Again, different voicings and also different design approaches. I have worked on solid state guitar amp designs where (by intent) the differences were very small. It’s just that solid state guitar amps are a harder sell because of preconceived prejudices. This is changing after Fender’s success with the Tonemaster line however.
 
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#143
I need to learn a lot I am young.

But at live show I never see any 100W solid state amp. A 500W sound too thin and doesn't push that much air for a metal band to me.

But I see a lot of 100W SVT head (always clean tone with those). And it sound as thicker and punchier than any solid state amp I have heard live.

A 300W solidstate (markbass one) at a live show was completely inaudible and I can't feel it at all (on a 810)
It was master level full up and gain before clipping

Then an Ampeg SVT3pro come in (on a 610) and it was way too loud and the vibration were so powerfull I didn't even hear the kickdrum.
 
#144
Franz975 said:
I need to learn a lot I am young.

But at live show I never see any 100W solid state amp. A 500W sound too thin and doesn't push that much air for a metal band to me.

But I see a lot of 100W SVT head (always clean tone with those). And it sound as thicker and punchier than any solid state amp I have heard live.

A 300W solidstate (markbass one) at a live show was completely inaudible and I can't feel it at all (on a 810)
It was master level full up and gain before clipping

Then an Ampeg SVT3pro come in (on a 610) and it was way too loud and the vibration were so powerfull I didn't even hear the kickdrum.
Click to expand...
As you said, you are young and have a lot to learn.

Stick around with an open mind and you might find yourself revisiting your assumptions.
 
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#145
agedhorse said:
As you said, you are young and have a lot to learn.

Stick around with an open mind and you might find yourself revisiting your assumptions.
Click to expand...

It is not assumption, I don't say that after looking a demo on youtube and saying that this amp is louder than this one in a video.

I heard those things live, the same night. And it was clear for me and my young healthy hears that the tube amp which is 9 time less the power of the Solid state, was way louder (and clean compare to the darkglass which was heavily distorded, with the bass knob close to max)
 
#147
Franz975 said:
It is not assumption, I don't say that after looking a demo on youtube and saying that this amp is louder than this one in a video.

I heard those things live, the same night. And it was clear for me and my young healthy hears that the tube amp which is 9 time less the power of the Solid state, was way louder (and clean compare to the darkglass which was heavily distorded, with the bass knob close to max)
Click to expand...
Ok, you were the one asking the question.

With the bass knob close to max, this is not an unexpected result. IMO, you just haven’t learned this yet, but you have plenty of time.
 
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#149
agedhorse said:
Ok, you were the one asking the question.

With the bass knob close to max, this is not an unexpected result. IMO, you just haven’t learned this yet, but you have plenty of time.
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There was a show with an Ampeg 100W tube and a Darkglass 900W with bass really high.

And another show with an Ampeg SVT 3 Pro and a Darkglass 900W with flat EQ.

The two times the Ampeg one was way louder and feel the room a lot more.

I know bass frequencies need a lot more power to be reproduce and take the headroom of the power amp so it can't be louder than if it was flat EQ.

But to compare with, at a shop there was a Darkglass 900W, Gallien Krueger 700W and SVT 3 Pro.

When they boost the bass on the Darkglass and GK there was some vibration and bass but when they crank the bass on the SVT 3 Pro it was way too much bass, way more than what the DG and GK head can produce.

Is it possible to explain that ? Because the SVT 3 Pro is 1/2 the power of the DG and GK and it was not quieter than those two (all 3 on a 610)
 
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#151
agedhorse said:
Sure, greatly different native voicing. They are about as far apart as possible actually.
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so they are all the same output ?

Because the SVT 3 Pro can be heard from a bigger distance than the 900w head from what I have experienced live.

Theory remain theory, if my pant doesn't flap on a 900W and flap on a 100W tube head I don't understand how they are supposed to be the same output
 
#152
Franz975 said:
I heard live an SVT (not driven by itself but by a Darkglass B7k) and a 900W darkglass with a B7k in front and the SVT hit me in the chest way more. I don't know about theory on those things like the other but from what I have heard live and at the shop (at the shop was a Darkglass 900W and an SVT3 Pro 375W) I don't think I needed to use theory to know the one that was the louder there.
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Were both through the same speaker cabinet?
 
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#157
Franz975 said:
Hum different live show so

There was a live on a 610 and a live with an 810

One time with a DG900w and an SVT
The other with a DG900w and a 100w tube head
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FWIW…Aged Horse is part of teams who design and build amps that I guarantee you have heard of lol. Dude most definitely knows his S$&#.

He is a dope resource and I recommend listening to him.

There are way too many factors here just to isolate what you heard to the amp. What kind of basses were being played? Output from pickups and preamps can vary tremendously. Active or passive? What were the EQ settings on a bass preamp? On the amp? In the FOH sound? How loud was the drummer in each band? How loud were the guitars? What kind of cables were being used? If the drummer and guitars are producing less volume the bass can appear to be producing more…

So many factors…etc, etc…

Etc….etc….
 
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#158
I listen to all of you. Last questions I have for you all is

Why can you use a 300W Tube Amp (Bigger Ampeg SVT) on big stage but everyone with a Class D on a big stage use a 700-900W Amp everytime if 300W is enough ?

(Other Solid State I see live that sounded good were those big Aguilar head and it is a 750W head)
 
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#159
Franz975 said:
I listen to all of you. Last questions I have for you all is

Why can you use a 300W Tube Amp (Bigger Ampeg SVT) on big stage but everyone with a Class D on a big stage use a 700-900W Amp everytime if 300W is enough ?

(Other Solid State I see live that sounded good were those big Aguilar head and it is a 750W head)
Click to expand...
Dude, you have been given all the information you need. Just play what you like. You want an SVT and they sound great, so get one.
 
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#160
smeet said:
Dude, you have been given all the information you need. Just play what you like. You want an SVT and they sound great, so get one.
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There's a lot to understand about why some amps, particularly tube amps, seem to outperform their power ratings. It may be beyond the scope of this thread, however. I encourage Franz975 to read up about it. People here can be jaded... forgetting we were all young with inquiring minds long ago.
 
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