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Jammers (hobbyists?) vs Players

#21
glocke1 said:
Its really getting to the point that I want to play so badly in an organized outfit with goals that Im even thinking of jumping genres.

This is what I had:

http://www.archive.org/details/TheMysteryCats2009-09-18

Its not perfect, but I sure do miss it. Rehearsals at least twice a month, time spent working stuff out, etc..
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Heh, I've played in plenty of (loosely)Dead-oriented bands and "jammers" was definitely understood to be a huge compliment to the players in that case. The band never, ever played it like the album, why should we? ;)

That said, being really good at group improv takes a ton of work. My last band of that sort (20 years back now) rehearsed twice a week and knew hundreds of songs and thousands of little set passages and motifs we could incorporate into jams. It paid off in gigs we never would've had a chance at without all that work.

Best of luck in your search!
 
#22
I'm in a band that does focused rehearsals with a list of songs to practice beforehand, and having an agenda for practice. But, I also feel that we could use some more jamming to work on our telepathy. There's value in improvising to get a band tighter, as well as stretch to see what the band can come up with and pull off.
 
#23
jive1 said:
I'm in a band that does focused rehearsals with a list of songs to practice beforehand, and having an agenda for practice. But, I also feel that we could use some more jamming to work on our telepathy. There's value in improvising to get a band tighter, as well as stretch to see what the band can come up with and pull off.
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I think, for me, a lot of cool song ideas came out of jamming. Great days and great fun.

Everything seems more regimented and strickly business even in reherals.In my last band I never even heard anyone even noodling in between songs.Same deal with my new band.
 
#24
bluewine said:
I think, for me, a lot of cool song ideas came out of jamming. Great days and great fun.

Everything seems more regimented and strickly business even in reherals.In my last band I never even heard anyone even noodling in between songs.Same deal with my new band.
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I think it takes a little bit of both to make a really good band..You do need organization, focus, structure and direction in order to get things accomplished. Throwing in some improvisation on top of all that allows everyone to get know each other better.
 
#25
Yeah, but I get the OP's problem. Sometimes we work it out, but sometimes when it gets a little tough going its like we think "just playing it" will somehow make it happen. Then someone says, "Thats good enough, no one will care when everyone is drunk anyway." So we play it and it sounds like crap.
 
#26
klokker said:
Yeah, but I get the OP's problem. Sometimes we work it out, but sometimes when it gets a little tough going its like we think "just playing it" will somehow make it happen. Then someone says, "Thats good enough, no one will care when everyone is drunk anyway." So we play it and it sounds like crap.
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Thats too bad, for me I think most that have had a respectable amount of national success had to work their butts off.

Practice,practice practice, and getting it right.Whether we are talking about harmonies, arangements, lyrics,tone whatever.

At some point you want to play in front of people and blow them away.

Make it look easy when you and the band know what it took to get there.

I have seen too many bands, actually friends of mine go and do shows and look like amatures up there. Sloppy performances, bad sound, too much time in between songs.Standing up there looking like fools.

At my age those days are over, even if I am playing 5.00 cover back rooms. I want my band to deliver a professional product.

It's why I will be up till one this morning learning the asigned songs for rehearsal this week.

No one will care, they are drunk nobody will notice.

You might be right they probably won't notice. But heres something on the flip side;

If your dynamite they will notice.
 
#27
klokker said:
Yeah, but I get the OP's problem. Sometimes we work it out, but sometimes when it gets a little tough going its like we think "just playing it" will somehow make it happen. Then someone says, "Thats good enough, no one will care when everyone is drunk anyway." So we play it and it sounds like crap.
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That exact statement came out of chick band members' mouths. Lead guit and I could only facepalm and make plans for departure.

Cherie
 
#28
bluewine said:
My erstwhile chick band died of this disease. It only took two people to adopt that attitude, to kill us. They didn't practice, didn't try to improve their playing skills, and took the attitude that the partying after the rehearsal is the funnest part, and that gigs are just a lot of work. Our lead guitarist left for a better band.


Cherie,

You really nailed the point here,and I thnk it's what he's getting at.

There are a lot of Tbers that have been through this and have been out there on the front lines dealing with these issues that evolve around the importance of the 3 Ps (Practice , practice, practice)as well as having a mision and a plan.

I also think we have a lot of jammers here that for one reason or the other don't care about playing out and what it takes to even be a tier 2 bar band.

I admit I o over board on this.

At a recent rehearsal the drummer was over playing and crowding the singer and the guitarist.

I don't think he was doing it on purpose. Things is, we are preparing material thats needs to be "show ready".

We mentioned it to him and his response was "I was just having fun". I am new to the band so I kept my mouth shut.

However, I wish I could have nicely told him, there will be planty of time for fun, but not right now. We need to learn the arangements for these songs and where we all belong in them.
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What a terrible attitude on the drummer's part! I understand going fishing for that perfect fill, but overplaying like that is just obnoxious.

Makes me want to go hug my current drummer around the neck and tell him how much I appreciate him. He *never* overplays, and has a great attitude. The current band works on parts, writes together, and is interested and taking these songs and blowing people away with 'em. Like a cool rain after a drought, playing with this group after being with those hack girls.

Cherie
 
#29
bluewine said:
Thats too bad, for me I think most that have had a respectable amount of national success had to work their butts off.

Practice,practice practice, and getting it right.Whether we are talking about harmonies, arangements, lyrics,tone whatever.

At some point you want to play in front of people and blow them away.

Make it look easy when you and the band know what it took to get there.

I have seen too many bands, actually friends of mine go and do shows and look like amatures up there. Sloppy performances, bad sound, too much time in between songs.Standing up there looking like fools.

At my age those days are over, even if I am playing 5.00 cover back rooms. I want my band to deliver a professional product.

It's why I will be up till one this morning learning the asigned songs for rehearsal this week.

No one will care, they are drunk nobody will notice.

You might be right they probably won't notice. But heres something on the flip side;

If your dynamite they will notice.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.
 
#30
txbasschik said:
That exact statement came out of chick band members' mouths. Lead guit and I could only facepalm and make plans for departure.

Cherie
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That's how I feel when we end up here exactly.....facepalm. However, I've decided to compromise on the departure part......we're all guys with jobs and families etc. a lot of things are right as well, I can't really go for the dream (kids in college etc). So I stay.

I just hate that attitude though.
 
#31
klokker said:
That's how I feel when we end up here exactly.....facepalm. However, I've decided to compromise on the departure part......we're all guys with jobs and families etc. a lot of things are right as well, I can't really go for the dream (kids in college etc). So I stay.

I just hate that attitude though.
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Shoot, sugar...I'm not trying to go for the dream, either. Everyone in the band was over 40, married, parents, and either had day jobs or homemaking responsibilities (which can be a full-time job when your family expects you to do it all). Lead guit and I just wanted to be able to take gigs and not have our band suck, not have the band present with this split pro/hack personality. There were good things, too...but the hack 'tudes negated them.

That attitude...that "who cares, we're just doing this for fun" thing...is very frustrating. Cover...original...full-time...weekend warrior...doesn't matter. Its such a destructive 'tude. Not only for the band involved, but for the venue, the audience, and other musicians in the area. It drags everyone down.

Jams...well, you can't keep the hacks out. You just have relegate them to the slow hours and limit their exposure. But to make a band and start taking gigs? The dead weight has got to go. Just don't take any gigs with the "who cares" people.

Cherie :)
 
#32
my rock band is filled with hobbyists who want to reach a pro level of success. they're fun guys, and even though they suck our composition and energy is still good enough to put on a fun show. (joined cos had nothing else to do, have a few much much better offers on the table now)

probably on the outs with them though for better stuff. all they know are power chords and every solo is pentatonic/blues scale!! the drummer wanted to jam some reggae, so I drop a reggae line, he throws in a beat, and then POWER CHORDS ON THE OFFBEAT!!!!! eventually i'll have to break it to them that theyre dreaming because they don't put in nearly enough practice for what they want.

But I will say, it is great practice for a bass player to have to make a sub-mediocre guitarist sound good. if you can pull that off, when you play with the big boys it will be pure amazingness!
 
#35
brianrost said:
Jamming is jamming and rehearsing is rehearsing.

Jamming is for fun and is as much a social activity as a musical one.

Rehearsing means there's going to be gigs (and soon).
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Well, the last couple of "jams" I attended were just noisy 3 hour wastes of time...Between 5 people not one of use knew the same songs. Even after agreeing on a a few songs to learn for the next time, people showed up not knowing jack...

I guess everyones opinion differs, but if im going to load up and schlep my gear out somewhere, Id like things to sound halfway decent, and for people to be able to play at least a few songs from start to finish.
 
#36
glocke1 said:
Well, the last couple of "jams" I attended were just noisy 3 hour wastes of time...Between 5 people not one of use knew the same songs. Even after agreeing on a a few songs to learn for the next time, people showed up not knowing jack...

I guess everyones opinion differs, but if im going to load up and schlep my gear out somewhere, Id like things to sound halfway decent, and for people to be able to play at least a few songs from start to finish.
Click to expand...
imho you gotta be damn good to wing it,and far too many just don't get that.....
 
#38
I know exactly what you`re talking about, and feel your pain, brother. I have no desire to play clubs; just wanna find a group to get together and play for fun. And when I say "play", I mean actually know a setlist and have it polished and ready to go when we meet. But everyone on CL that I talk to either A: wants to conquer the bar scene. B: "Only does originals". or C: Sounds like what I want, but never delivers. I`ve learned about 100 songs in the past year, only to have those people never actually get anything together. I`ve been looking for a hobby band for close to a year now :eek: without success ! I`ve finally found a group that seems to be on the same page as me. They are not exactly on the same page as me material - wise, but at this point, I`d join a Polka band. I`ve got my end of the setlist down, and we meet next Tue. Fingers crossed. If it doesn`t work out this time, I`m giving up. As far as the "jamming is jamming" thing, I have to disagree. A room full of people meeting up without a similar level of preparation isn`t "jamming", it`s a bunch of noise. "Rehearsing" has nothing to do with eventual gigs...it`s called making "jamming" fun instead of frustrating. Just because I don`t have an eye on making beer money at a local bar doesn`t mean I shouldn`t make an effort to actually learn the songs for our "jam" sessions, "rehearsals", or whatever anybody wants to call it. Too many people with that mentality is what makes hobby band situations suck sooo bad.
 
#39
"Jamming" is the must abused word among people talking about music, musicians, and non-musicians alike.

It should refer to improvisation, but usually gets used when talking about tightly played and arranged stuff. Go figure.

As for the hobbyists, they are the ones for whom rehearsal night becomes bowling night. If you're just doing it for fun, then go play Guitar Hero, and leave the real thing to those of us who do it for more than mere fun; stuff like artistic expression and satisfaction, and the actual ability to parlay musician status into meaningful escapades with the opposite sex. You don't get those, if you never leave the basement.
 

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