Jammers (hobbyists?) vs Players

[jmattbassplaya]

What's laughable is that often people whining about "jammers" can't compose their way out of a sopped liquor store bag. While some of the improvisers have a high individual and/or collective sense of composition.

My experiences say the exact opposite. Jammers are people who can't write to save their lives and often fall into playing the same mundane licks over and over again because they work. Composers actually sit down and work out new things because they want to expand from the norm.

I've played in about 4 different jam bands within the past year (around 20 of so different players) and while it would be cool for the first rehearsal or two with a group, I'd very quickly realize that all the players would play the exact same licks and progressions over and over again because it was all they knew how to do... and then they'd suggest Phish song after Phish song to cover...

Sorry, but jammers are the biggest waste of space on the music circuit, and they unfortunately make up the bulk of musicians in the college scene.

Jamming =/= Improvisation

 

[greenboy]

Obviously we are talking different jammers. I'm talking guys with mad improv skills, usually with jazz backgrounds and/or careers.

Not that half the college jam bands can't do something better than half of the alt* bands around when it comes to musical content, though.

EDIT: I realize I'm not really talking about the topic title.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Obviously we are talking different jammers. I'm talking guys with mad improv skills, usually with jazz backgrounds and/or careers.

Not that half the college jam bands can't do something better than half of the alt* bands around when it comes to musical content, though.

EDIT: I realize I'm not really talking about the topic title.

We both are, but I see what you're saying.

But relating my experiences back to the OP - whenever I come across a musician who just wants to 'jam' I walk the other way, because that's exactly what I've gotten over the past year. I have nothing against improvisation, but I find that there is a huge difference between people who 'improv' and people who 'jam'. The ones who improv will get out of the basements and rehearsal rooms to do gigs, while the ones who jam are often stuck there... week after week... month after month...

 

[bluewine]

We both are, but I see what you're saying.

But relating my experiences back to the OP - whenever I come across a musician who just wants to 'jam' I walk the other way, because that's exactly what I've gotten over the past year. I have nothing against improvisation, but I find that there is a huge difference between people who 'improv' and people who 'jam'. The ones who improv will get out of the basements and rehearsal rooms to do gigs, while the ones who jam are often stuck there... week after week... month after month...

Regardless of skill level,I wonder if it comes down to guys that don't like giging, playing in front of an audience,playing bars and clubs.

While I personally will never undertand why anyone that plays, especially rock would not want to play out (unless he/she can't due physical reasons or family obligations).

Theres a guy at work, a guitarist that loves playing guitar has for years but tells me he just never had whatever it is that makes you want to play out in front of an audience. I must have a mental block with that, it just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[puddin tame]

Well, the last couple of "jams" I attended were just noisy 3 hour wastes of time...Between 5 people not one of use knew the same songs. Even after agreeing on a a few songs to learn for the next time, people showed up not knowing jack...

I guess everyones opinion differs, but if im going to load up and schlep my gear out somewhere, Id like things to sound halfway decent, and for people to be able to play at least a few songs from start to finish.

Since when did you have to know any songs to jam??

I never considered playing cover songs to be jaming

 

[glocke1]

What's laughable is that often people whining about "jammers" can't compose their way out of a sopped liquor store bag. While some of the improvisers have a high individual and/or collective sense of composition.

Theres a difference. A group of capable improvisers are able to create music from a simple phrase, groove or musical passage. Ive really only run into a handful of people who are talented enough to pull that kind of stuff off and have it sound good, and out of that handful of people there was a subset that made it sound good, but the licks the played really all sounded the same.

The people Im referring to as "jammers" are people who are content to just do half assed approach to playing a song, not stopping when there is obviously something wrong and trying to fix it.

 

[glocke1]

Since when did you have to know any songs to jam??

I never considered playing cover songs to be jaming

At least as far as Im concerned, unless everyone your going to meet is super talented and people are able to compose interesting things on the spot, or your content to just play simple blues, you have to walk into a situation with something in common musically.

Like I said, the last couple of times Ive walked into a situation that was basically an open jam, no one knew any songs in common..the ones that were tried were trainwrecks, and any attempt to get others to play a spontaneous composition failed.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

At least as far as Im concerned, unless everyone your going to meet is super talented and people are able to compose interesting things on the spot, or your content to just play simple blues, you have to walk into a situation with something in common musically.

Like I said, the last couple of times Ive walked into a situation that was basically an open jam, no one knew any songs in common..the ones that were tried were trainwrecks, and any attempt to get others to play a spontaneous composition failed.

+1

It doesn't always happen this way, but I would say it happens 9 times out of 10. I'll also say that most people have trouble jamming with a bassist who does anything but root notes. Maybe they just have a hard time following a bassist who can lead, or perhaps they just don't want the bassist to lead because it robs them of their spotlight. But whenever I try to lead a jam it often ends with someone getting butthurt because they don't get to solo nonstop.

I'm done with 'jamming' just to jam. Let's either write or come in to the rehearsal knowing songs instead of wasting everyone's time by playing boring blues progressions that consist of nonstop guitar solos.

 

[txbasschik]

imho you gotta be damn good to wing it,and far too many just don't get that.....

I "wing it" every Wednesday, as host bass. Some people come to the jam and do the same songs, week after week. AAARRGGGHH!!! Yeah, it easy, but its boring. Some come with things I've never played before. Some come with originals. If they didn't bring a bassist, that means I've got play it all, or at least try to. Dunno if I'd say if I was "damn good", but I sure have learned a lot, and it has made me a better player. Its good for ya...like broccoli. lol!

What kills me is that I'm willing to just dive in a play these things I don't know, and sometimes either don't care for or have never heard. But are the other musicians willing to pick up tunes I know, that they don't? Ohhhhhhh, no way. So I get stuck doing the same things all the time, because when I try to teach them something else, they shut down like a computer with a virus.

Cherie