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Jazz comping (chords) on 4 string

project_c

project_c

May 8, 2008
1,592
1,870
London, UK
#1
This is a niche question so I'm not sure if I'll get any replies but it's worth asking anyway. I often practise jazz standards with a guitarist, and rather than just playing walking lines, I sometimes play the chords, especially if he's playing the head of the tune. While that's fine, it can sound a bit basic at times, especially compared to the fancy comping stuff he does, so I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for adding chord variations / any other comping tricks or ideas alongside the chords.
 
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#2
I've attached a small, fairly basic pdf I put together a few years ago with some useful chord voicings for 4-string bass. In general, these sound muddy below the 8th fret. Of the chord tones (1, 3, 5, 7), the 5th is by far the least important. In a Dominant chord, the 3rd and b7th are the most important, although root motion is also important. This chart will get you into some ideas for standards like All the Things You Are, etc. So, basic voicings. But once you get familiar with these, constructing voicings for more complex chords will become easy.

Sometimes you are faced with a decision. For example, if a Dom7(#9) chord is called for you probably don't want to voice both the 3rd and the #9 (even up the octave, the #9 will usually sound awful in a bass voicing if you are also voicing the 3rd). So, depending on context, you sometimes have to accept some limitations associated with bass.

As far as comping and voicing go, one of the things that's often characteristic of jazz is the ability to change just one note in a voicing to move from one chord to another. This is really mainly an artifact of rapid tempos and the need to shift as little as possible at tempo, but the result is a characteristic style (at least on guitar as we are now translating to bass).

For example, here are two additional voicings not in the pdf I attached (I don't count the D voicing because it's an open voicing; all the voicings in the pdf and the first two below can be moved around and rely on no open strings). The chord progression is: | Emin7 \ \ \ | A7 \ \ \ | D \ \ \ |

Emin7..A7....D
G 12....12....11
D 12....11....O
A x......x......12
E 12....12....x

Have fun.
 

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#4
project_c said:
This is a niche question so I'm not sure if I'll get any replies but it's worth asking anyway. I often practise jazz standards with a guitarist, and rather than just playing walking lines, I sometimes play the chords, especially if he's playing the head of the tune. While that's fine, it can sound a bit basic at times, especially compared to the fancy comping stuff he does, so I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for adding chord variations / any other comping tricks or ideas alongside the chords.
Click to expand...
Yeah check out Janek Gwizdalas book on playing chords on bass. He’s one of the best at this sort of thing
495D2A3D-48B6-41CD-8DA2-47E35A5FAB40.jpeg
 
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#5
FretlessMainly said:
I've attached a small, fairly basic pdf I put together a few years ago with some useful chord voicings for 4-string bass. In general, these sound muddy below the 8th fret. Of the chord tones (1, 3, 5, 7), the 5th is by far the least important. In a Dominant chord, the 3rd and b7th are the most important, although root motion is also important. This chart will get you into some ideas for standards like All the Things You Are, etc. So, basic voicings. But once you get familiar with these, constructing voicings for more complex chords will become easy.

Sometimes you are faced with a decision. For example, if a Dom7(#9) chord is called for you probably don't want to voice both the 3rd and the #9 (even up the octave, the #9 will usually sound awful in a bass voicing if you are also voicing the 3rd). So, depending on context, you sometimes have to accept some limitations associated with bass.

As far as comping and voicing go, one of the things that's often characteristic of jazz is the ability to change just one note in a voicing to move from one chord to another. This is really mainly an artifact of rapid tempos and the need to shift as little as possible at tempo, but the result is a characteristic style (at least on guitar as we are now translating to bass).

For example, here are two additional voicings not in the pdf I attached (I don't count the D voicing because it's an open voicing; all the voicings in the pdf and the first two below can be moved around and rely on no open strings). The chord progression is: | Emin7 \ \ \ | A7 \ \ \ | D \ \ \ |

Emin7..A7....D
G 12....12....11
D 12....11....O
A x......x......12
E 12....12....x

Have fun.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this detailed reply, I found your secondary voicings where you add the 5th interesting, that's the kind of thing I was looking for - ideas for adding variation to the chord. I noticed half diminished was missing from the list, I'm guessing you'd voice that as root / b5 / b7? (for example: A half dim would be A on A string (root), Eb on D string (b5), G on G string (b7)?).

I spent a while playing with this last night and found a whole bunch of options whilst playing over a looping Cm7 by finding combinations which focus on the 9, 11 and 13 rather than root / 7 / 3, it opened things up a lot!
 
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#6
I waded around in comping the bass and found, like has been mentioned, I was wading around in muddy waters, so really did not give it a fair chance. Perhaps something to be dusted off and looked at again.

So beyond deciding which chord tone to leave active, and which one to omit, I'm not going to be much help. Your PDF spells out our choices quite well.
 
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#7
project_c said:
Thank you for this detailed reply, I found your secondary voicings where you add the 5th interesting, that's the kind of thing I was looking for - ideas for adding variation to the chord. I noticed half diminished was missing from the list, I'm guessing you'd voice that as root / b5 / b7? (for example: A half dim would be A on A string (root), Eb on D string (b5), G on G string (b7)?).

I spent a while playing with this last night and found a whole bunch of options whilst playing over a looping Cm7 by finding combinations which focus on the 9, 11 and 13 rather than root / 7 / 3, it opened things up a lot!
Click to expand...
A few comments:

1) I don't use the term half diminished; I use min7(b5) - after all, that's what it is. But I would most likely voice that with the b3, b5 and b7 (notice that most of my voicings are for three fingers rather than four). But it's more complicated than that. The min7(b5) is a Dominant chord; although it is a ii chord in the minor mode, it's also a reharm for a V7 chord in the Major mode, so your note choices depends on how the min7(b5) chord is functioning. The B and F of a Bmin7(b5) (vii in C Major) are the root and b5th of the Bmin7(b5) but are the 3rd and b7th of the corresponding G7 (V in C Major). So, you have some options. Any of my diminished voicings can be tweaked to get the min7(b5).

2) It's nice to see that you have some good knowledge of theory - any chord can be supplemented with a 9, 11 or 13 as appropriate (i.e., keeping in mind the b9, #9, #11, b13 as well). In some cases, these extensions may be more important than the root in fostering and furthering the direction in which the harmony is going;

3) While the 5th may the least important note in terms of establishing tonality/harmony, sometimes it just sounds really good! And note that when the 5th is flatted, it becomes much more important. In most cases, I would drop the root if the 5th is flatted and include the b5.

4) Jazz on.
 
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#8
Check out guitarist Jody Fisher's chord/melody instructional videos. (There are some free samples on YouTube.) A lot of the time he is playing the melody on the top 2 strings, and chords + bass on the bottom 4 strings (tuned EADG, one octave higher than the bass). So if you simply ignore the melody and focus only what he is doing chord-wise, you will get some nice ideas for 4-string chord voicings.

 
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#9
Something to think about; one of the open tunings may work with comping. For a time I messed around on the Cigar Box slide guitar tuned D-G-D and some TB member offered that a B on the 4th string would fill out the strings and produce a good open G tuning for our 4 string bass.

Just a thought.
 
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#10
Mushroo said:
Check out guitarist Jody Fisher's chord/melody instructional videos. (There are some free samples on YouTube.) A lot of the time he is playing the melody on the top 2 strings, and chords + bass on the bottom 4 strings (tuned EADG, one octave higher than the bass). So if you simply ignore the melody and focus only what he is doing chord-wise, you will get some nice ideas for 4-string chord voicings.

Click to expand...


Hmm... that "one octave higher than the bass" and "it's a guitar" does not provide a lot of info for a 4 string bass guitar player.
Just my personal opinion.
 
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#12
Another suggestion is a 5-string bass tuned EADGC (or even EADGB if you want an easier way to cheat with guitar chord charts). The extra high string removes a LOT of the muddyness you get when trying to play chords with the lower strings. Another idea to remove muddyness is when switching to play chords, switch to bridge pickup only for that part, then when returning to walking part go back to neck or blended neck-bridge pickups.

The E-C tuned bass also allows you to use a few different voicings of the chords and more elaborate chords sound much better. Also makes it easier than having to play high up the neck, you are able to play chords in lower fret positions.

I play occasionally with just sax, drums and bass, and using 5-string tuned this way has worked really well when I need to carry the rhythm parts with chords.
 
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#13
srayb said:
Another suggestion is a 5-string bass tuned EADGC (or even EADGB if you want an easier way to cheat with guitar chord charts). The extra high string removes a LOT of the muddyness you get when trying to play chords with the lower strings. Another idea to remove muddyness is when switching to play chords, switch to bridge pickup only for that part, then when returning to walking part go back to neck or blended neck-bridge pickups.

The E-C tuned bass also allows you to use a few different voicings of the chords and more elaborate chords sound much better. Also makes it easier than having to play high up the neck, you are able to play chords in lower fret positions.

I play occasionally with just sax, drums and bass, and using 5-string tuned this way has worked really well when I need to carry the rhythm parts with chords.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can see the advantages of a high C for sure. I had a 5 a while ago, loved it but my hands are just not big enough to be comfortable on it. Although saying that, it was an old Warwick with a baseball bat wenge neck so perhaps not the best introduction to 5ers.. Sounded great though.
 
#14
I'm a big advocate for chording on bass. I agree with the above posters that if you're comping on a 4 string, theres always going to be some give and take. On a 5 string, even with a low B, you get an additional voice that makes things exponentially easier to play. It also helps alleviate the muddiness by spreading the voices out over multiple octaves. This is why when you look at 4 string chord melody players, they often play a lot of harmonics as a way to spread the chord out, and kind of cheat their way out of the Lower Interval Limit, which when taken into consideration greatly reduces the amount of chord options available on any standard tuned bass.
 
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#15
Octave up pedal, though my results with the Pitchfork were not that impressive. It really only likes tracking one note at a time, generally the loudest, with uneven results.

I liked the E-C five string, but that’s not really a four string solution.

Maybe a double neck with piccolo on one side? Just kidding.

Comping with chords is pushing the limits of a standard tuned four string. At least it is for me. Looping won’t really work for jazz tunes, you’d have to lay a bass track through the whole progression. Maybe if you could use a pedal tone, then use the octave up for biads....

Bass pedals?

The challenges of a jazz bass and guitar duet. Once the guitar starts the single note lines...well, ya know... I’d go watch some Ray Brown videos.
 
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#18
singlemalt said:
Looping won’t really work for jazz tunes, you’d have to lay a bass track through the whole progression.
Click to expand...

I do that! I play "Fly me to the Moon" by singing the first verse over a walking bass, then letting the bass loop while I comp and sing the second verse, then solo over the looped bass, then repeat the second chorus and end. The comping is extremely simple 2-note 3rd-and-7th chords on the D and G strings.

It's not Great Art--I'm happy just to get through it without a train wreck--but it works, more or less. I have to have the bass part pretty much set and memorized for it to work reliably, and I have to really concentrate on the tempo, as any slight speedup or slowdown sticks out like a sore thumb at the loop point.
 
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#19
on a 4 string, you really are limited to 10ths, or fairly simple 7th chords (rood, 3rd, 7th)

it can be done tastefully. I remember my teacher in college being asked to demonstrate this (on upright) how to tastefully play chords through a chorus of a standard.. i think it was "all the things you are" or something like that... what he did absolutely killed.. using mostly 10ths.

if you are actually looking to explore chords, a 5 or 6 string is definitely a worthwhile investment. 5 string with high C string seems to work just fine for Janek - though check out what he can do on a 4 string as well, there are definitely lots of possibilities.
 
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