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Jazz vs. Smooth Jazz
- Thread starter rarbass
- Start date
or he just listened to the wrong jazz albums 
and now I go back to the dark side, before you angry BG guys stone me to death
and now I go back to the dark side, before you angry BG guys stone me to death
I have some 'smooth jazz' CD's in my collection
that are fantastic. If you haven't heard these, you should
listen to
Upfront - David Sanborn
4 - Fourplay
Love Is THe Power - Rachel Z
Best of Sade
And if you call 'smooth jazz' instrumental
pop music, you might as well include:
Amandla - Miles Davis
High Life - Wayne Shorter
I'd also like to add that out of all of the 'jazz' albums I've heard, a much higher percentage of them are absolute crap than out of the 'smooth jazz' albums I've heard. And if you listen carefully to the 'smooth jazz' records I've listed above, you will definitely learn a ton about bass playing, and music in general.
I had a roommate once who insisted that the Grateful Dead was jazz, and that's a whole different story.
Well again it's about definitions - I would see Sade as a pop act making pop songs with nothing to do with Jazz. I like Sade, but the music is nothing to do with Jazz and in fact has even less to do with Smooth Jazz as none of the musicians involved are even American - they are all British! The band was formed in 1982 and was a chart band in the UK!
I'd also like to bet that if you care to name any of the "Jazz" albums that you think are "crap" that I could give convincing reasons as to why it's either not Jazz or not Crap!!
- Aug 1, 2005
- 3,546
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- Private Inventor - Bass Capos
I'm surprised nobody mentioned this satire article:
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I haven't heard any SJ in years. With internet, I don't have to wait on hold anymore with my bank or telecom, and in my adopted country, dentists and building owners kindly refrain from forcing me to listen to music which is supposed to relax me (What?!).
My own take is that I like music that comes from instruments. If a SJ band had to perform with no compression or signal processing of any kind, I don't think even their most loyal fans would recognize them.
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I haven't heard any SJ in years. With internet, I don't have to wait on hold anymore with my bank or telecom, and in my adopted country, dentists and building owners kindly refrain from forcing me to listen to music which is supposed to relax me (What?!).
My own take is that I like music that comes from instruments. If a SJ band had to perform with no compression or signal processing of any kind, I don't think even their most loyal fans would recognize them.
Well again it's about definitions - I would see Sade as a pop act making pop songs with nothing to do with Jazz. I like Sade, but the music is nothing to do with Jazz and in fact has even less to do with Smooth Jazz as none of the musicians involved are even American - they are all British! The band was formed in 1982 and was a chart band in the UK!
I'd also like to bet that if you care to name any of the "Jazz" albums that you think are "crap" that I could give convincing reasons as to why it's either not Jazz or not Crap!!
When I was in Jr. High, there was a radio station that was called "Smooth Jazz 101.1" or something, can't remember the number. Played Sade at least once per hour, so I'm considering it smooth jazz for my purposes. Anyways, if you don't agree, then just consider the other albums I mentioned.
I don't want to name any names, because people are still living. However here are the top 5 absolutely terrible 'legit' jazz albums I can think of at the moment (these are actual records, just not identifying them out of respect):
1. Very famous pianist, drummer, and bass player, who hadn't ever played together. Record company has a the idea to cash in and get these three guys in the studio to jam. Music is horrible. Record company releases the record.
2. Great vocalist - record company insists on using a famous drummer. The drummer shows up high on heroin, and in a very combative mood. Music is terrible, arrangements fall apart. Record company releases the record. (I'm friends with the drummer who was replaced with the 'big name' guy)
3. Horn player has lost his chops about 20 years ago. Record company wants to cash in his name, and releases an album which is completely embarrassing to all involved.
4. Musician son of famous Hollywood personality puts out the record. The young musician will probably someday be a great musician, but the record company is trying to cash in on the person's famous name. The album is terrible, and embarrassing.
5. Record company releases live tapes of a bassist, who is pretty much universally revered on this bulletin board. Bassist was obviously in no condition to be playing - music is terrible and album only serves to further tarnish the musicians legacy
Wel - it's easy to say that, without naming names and that's just 5 albums - I have several thousand great Jazz albums and could think of many thousands more I would like to own!!
Picking 5 bad albums out of the many thousands of great ones, just highlights to me, that you haven't listened to enough Jazz yet...
Picking 5 bad albums out of the many thousands of great ones, just highlights to me, that you haven't listened to enough Jazz yet...
You can't say that the recordings of the first miles davis quintet were crap, now can you?
My guess is that you wouldn't recognize jazz if it hit you in the face.
Wel - it's easy to say that, without naming names and that's just 5 albums - I have several thousand great Jazz albums and could think of many thousands more I would like to own!!
Picking 5 bad albums out of the many thousands of great ones, just highlights to me, that you haven't listened to enough Jazz yet...
Bruce, you challenged me to name "any" jazz album that's "crap" and you wagered that you could tell me why it was either not jazz, and not crap. I identified 5, then thought better of it, and didn't use names. As a jazz bassist playing professionally for 20 years, and in NYC for the last 10 years, I wager that I know a lot more about jazz than you. I also have thousands of jazz albums, the CD's alone on spindles fill up an entire closet.
I think you're wrong, so let's just let it go.
Thanks!
No, the first Miles Davis quintet is one of my favorite groups. I don't understand how you came up with that comment, and I think your statement that you guess I wouldn't recognize jazz if it hit me in the face appears very rude and inexplicably mean.
Would you explain it please?
Thanks!
While I do understand that Smooth Jazz doesn't necessarily rely on the improvisational element that "real jazz" does, I do believe that Jazz can still be considered a subgenre of Jazz. It might not be easily compareable, but it's closer to Jazz than Lil' Wayne, no? Point being...it's called "Smooth Jazz" therefore a sub-genre, but still very different.
Because you try to prove your point that a high percentage of jazz albums is crap by mentioning 5 albums without even mentioning names...
But perhaps I misunderstood, and if so, I apologize...
The Smooth Jazz station we used to have around here used to play Earth Wind & Fire occasionally
That is until their format was changed to a pop station...:scowl:
Regarding many jazz albums being crap, I agree to some extent. I also think many smooth jazz albums are crap. To be successful in either endeavor I think requires some creativity, melodically, harmonically and rhythmically. Simply coming up with a more complex chord progression and playing with more dissonance isn't a formula for a good jazz album, but it sure seems to be what a lot of artists do. I personally don't care about trying to concentrate on what I'm listening to and using that as a measure of how good or bad it is. I either like it when I hear it or I don't. If I don't, then chances are I won't listen to it again. Of course, there are times when I see merit in an album that I don't instantly like, and then I grow to love it. Bitches Brew was definitely one of those albums, and I can name a few others.
Mostly I just don't want to be one of those jazz snobs who is constantly putting other "simpler" forms of music down. I don't even like being around those folks anymore, even though they are usually very good at what they do. It's also painfully obvious that some of them can't do much else.
Mostly I just don't want to be one of those jazz snobs who is constantly putting other "simpler" forms of music down. I don't even like being around those folks anymore, even though they are usually very good at what they do. It's also painfully obvious that some of them can't do much else.
Jazz fans can be annoying, I agree. I know some guys who go to music school "concerts" and then put down people who are in their first/second year of playing an instrument. (I've had them all over me a couple of times)
They just enjoy the nagging I guess
Well - I still stand by the fact that there are thousands of great jazz albums and you still haven't named any bad ones!!
You didn't know much about Sade though did you!!
Well - it seems a bit strange to be playing a genre of music that you are slagging off ...
Why play something you don't rate - where can I hear your work then....?
I agree. For example, when Wayner Shorter's 'High Life' came out, many critics dismissed it as smooth jazz. i believe it's actually a great album filled with complexity and emotion. Later, I saw his band playing it live, and it was great.
However, lots of jazz fans dismissed the album as smooth jazz, and that really upset me, because in my opinion the album is a towering musical achievement.
Well - I still stand by the fact that there are thousands of great jazz albums and you still haven't named any bad ones!! :eybrow:
Well - it seems a bit strange to be playing a genre of music that you are slagging off ...
Why play something you don't rate - where can I hear your work then....?
i said that a higher percentage of 'jazz' albums i have heard are bad, compared to 'smooth jazz' albums. That still could mean that I loved 99.9% of jazz albums i have heard. Which isn't true, by the way -- as a professional musician I naturally listen to music of my genre much more critically.
For example, read a blindfold test in a jazz magazine. Perhaps the person interviewed says that he only likes 6 out of 10 things played for him/her. Is that person slagging off jazz, or are they being opinionated about their art form?
If you want to hear any of my playing, a couple of things pop into my head. You're in the UK, so perhaps you can get the children's progeam "third and bird". that's me on bass. or if you want to hear a jazz thing go look at the webisode of gelberandmanning.tv. that's me on the sountrack, although a diferent person plays the role of the bass player on the video.
I've been making that comparison for years... Decades even! I call it "Weather Channel local forecast music"
