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Jeff Berlin Bass Education Packages

Hi all and thanks for all the useful infos about Jeff packages. I am still looking to understand a little bit better how the video and explanations work. Let's suppose we are in package 3, and we are working on a Lydian etude: does Jeff explain theory about where we use Lydian scales, where they come from etc. etc. on the video? The question is also possible for packages 4 and 5...does he provide explanations regarding WHY things have been done, or just how to practice the etude? The 50% off is really interesting, but I am not sure about theory explanation...I would not be interested in getting another tons of exercises without theory explanations.

I am curious about this as well. I have been wondering how much there is in the way of explaining the concept being presented in each etude/package and how much the reader is expected to identify independently. I imagine the there may not be too much in the way of explanation as working this out on your own, or with guidance from a teacher, is probably best at training you to solve these types of musical problems yourself....and there may be more than one solution. Hopefully @BrotherMister can confirm. He should get a cut of the sales as far as I’m concerned!!!
 
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Hi all and thanks for all the useful infos about Jeff packages. I am still looking to understand a little bit better how the video and explanations work. Let's suppose we are in package 3, and we are working on a Lydian etude: does Jeff explain theory about where we use Lydian scales, where they come from etc. etc. on the video? The question is also possible for packages 4 and 5...does he provide explanations regarding WHY things have been done, or just how to practice the etude? The 50% off is really interesting, but I am not sure about theory explanation...I would not be interested in getting another tons of exercises without theory explanations.

The videos are basically Jeff playing the etudes, flubs and all. As part of his process he encourages people to make mistakes practising so a lot of the recordings are 1 take and thats it. The hope being, as I understood it, that if you seen him pause for a split second and think that you will be comfortable making mistakes in the practise room. His big thing is the difference between practise and performance, people tend to try to perform what they don't know. As a teacher this is something I actually fully agree with and see a lot.

There is pretty much zero explanations for anything. So your Lydian etudes are written in C, and always start with the scale. Everything in Package 3 and 4 is written in C so you can actually see the relationship between C Major and C Lydian. Or in package 4 you start with a Cmajor7 arpeggio so you can see what the notes are and then when you move to something else you see it's relationship to the major. What he does recommend is that you change the tonality/modality of every exercise in the package so you develop the habit of being able to do that.
 
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mmm..ok, so I think I won't go further with the purchase. Maybe I will move to joe hubbard beginner series: it seems quite more complete, with explanations and videos. Have some of you ever tried it?
 
If you are looking to learn how to read and really get your scales/chord tones/enclosures/playing in all keys together, then it’s amazing and it does work but if you are looking for actual lessons and someone to sit down and explain how things are built and why they go together then I’d say you are best getting something else.

I can’t comment on Joe’s programmes but from the few videos I’ve seen of his he is one of the better teachers in terms of actual musical content but you’d be best looking for someone with experience with that programme.
 
If you are looking to learn how to read and really get your scales/chord tones/enclosures/playing in all keys together, then it’s amazing and it does work but if you are looking for actual lessons and someone to sit down and explain how things are built and why they go together then I’d say you are best getting something else.

I can’t comment on Joe’s programmes but from the few videos I’ve seen of his he is one of the better teachers in terms of actual musical content but you’d be best looking for someone with experience with that programme.

Jeff talks a lot about musically meaningful music. One of his latest posts in his Facebook group is "Reading music isn't a reliable way to learn how to play better! But, reading academically meaningful music, absolutely is!" As someone who has gotten the online courses are you able to tell what is musically meaningful? Or what academic music is? It feels like these are just vague terms used with no real answer I can find. Or more so concepts without examples. I would love to hear your insight! I am considering getting his lessons.
 
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Jeff talks a lot about musically meaningful music. One of his latest posts in his Facebook group is "Reading music isn't a reliable way to learn how to play better! But, reading academically meaningful music, absolutely is!" As someone who has gotten the online courses are you able to tell what is musically meaningful? Or what academic music is? It feels like these are just vague terms used with no real answer I can find. Or more so concepts without examples. I would love to hear your insight! I am considering getting his lessons.
I'll try to answer your question with the understanding that it is merely my opinion. Jeff would be the best resource to answer your question but I believe that the statement is intentionally worded to promote thought. If you go through a book of scales (academic music) you'll be able to play scales. Similarly if you pick up a book of verbs you'll be able to speak in verbs but neither, on it's own, will allow you to convey an idea or communicate effectively. Which is a more effective message: "eat" from your book of verbs or "I'm Hungry?" Making the same analogy if you go through a book of true musical content you will be able to put those ideas into a musical context. Fundamentally if you want to play better you just need to drop the needle on the record and mimic your favorite musicians (notice I didn't say bassist) who are playing in a context that appeals to you. Similarly you learn the spoken language by conversation, watching television etc. Pick up a book or two and take note of how much your command of the English language improves. Pick up a book of "musically meaningful music" and you are not only pressed to dig deeper into the music itself but also the mechanical conversion process of actually operating the instrument to obtain the desired result (sound) which is something that comes second nature with speech due to inherent familiarity with the process. You don't think about where to place your tongue or form your lips when speaking, you just do it. Your goal, hopefully, is to be able to process the information the same way and the musically meaningful music will do just that. I believe that is his intention with the course.
 
Jeff talks a lot about musically meaningful music. One of his latest posts in his Facebook group is "Reading music isn't a reliable way to learn how to play better! But, reading academically meaningful music, absolutely is!" As someone who has gotten the online courses are you able to tell what is musically meaningful? Or what academic music is? It feels like these are just vague terms used with no real answer I can find. Or more so concepts without examples. I would love to hear your insight! I am considering getting his lessons.

I totally understand the confusion about this as it's not really a thing you can pick up and buy, but to be able to identify what it is you already need to know what you are looking for. Or trust someone that does.

If I give you a transcription of a walking bass line that I lifted from a record that isn't academic music in this. Yes we can analyse it and understand what is going on but we are still ultimately at the mercy of someones approach and style. IE how they use rhythm, passing tones, chromatics etc is all dictated to us by that player. You are studying a snapshot of them in time. Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with this at all by any means, there is tremendous value in it but the flaw is you are learning someone else approach or compositing something from various people you study. This is valuable and largely how people begin to develop individual styles, or at worst case just sound like a clone... which happens a lot.

Now an academic approach to that would be to take the same chord sequence and study every possible permutation of a chords. If it's a triad there are something like 90 odd permutations from root position to 2nd inversion. That number goes up the more notes we add to each chord. But the study of each permutation alone is really drilling in the pure information alone. You aren't accounting for style or substance or a genre etc etc you are simply dealing with the raw data of the notes within a chord and the possible ways to play them and how to do it on the instrument.

So you can play through the changes using all the permutations of only root position, then 1st inversion, then 2nd inversion etc. Which is harmonically perfect to use a Jeff phrase because there is not a single note that doesn't outline the harmony. In the process of doing that you'll be a much better bass player because you have spent hours and hours over months and years really learning the instrument to work through all of that.

It's not going to sound amazing on the gig but it's not going to sound wrong either, but you'll be able to manipulate that information as you see fit rather than manipulation the information you've learning from someone elses manipulation of the information. Or Chinese whispers to sum it up.

Absolutely transcribe stuff and analyse it as well. There is a wealth of information to be learned from that but Jeff's approach absolutely works as well since you'll have a far more thorough understanding of the raw material to create stuff with.
 
I totally understand the confusion about this as it's not really a thing you can pick up and buy, but to be able to identify what it is you already need to know what you are looking for. Or trust someone that does.

If I give you a transcription of a walking bass line that I lifted from a record that isn't academic music in this. Yes we can analyse it and understand what is going on but we are still ultimately at the mercy of someones approach and style. IE how they use rhythm, passing tones, chromatics etc is all dictated to us by that player. You are studying a snapshot of them in time. Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with this at all by any means, there is tremendous value in it but the flaw is you are learning someone else approach or compositing something from various people you study. This is valuable and largely how people begin to develop individual styles, or at worst case just sound like a clone... which happens a lot.

Now an academic approach to that would be to take the same chord sequence and study every possible permutation of a chords. If it's a triad there are something like 90 odd permutations from root position to 2nd inversion. That number goes up the more notes we add to each chord. But the study of each permutation alone is really drilling in the pure information alone. You aren't accounting for style or substance or a genre etc etc you are simply dealing with the raw data of the notes within a chord and the possible ways to play them and how to do it on the instrument.

So you can play through the changes using all the permutations of only root position, then 1st inversion, then 2nd inversion etc. Which is harmonically perfect to use a Jeff phrase because there is not a single note that doesn't outline the harmony. In the process of doing that you'll be a much better bass player because you have spent hours and hours over months and years really learning the instrument to work through all of that.

It's not going to sound amazing on the gig but it's not going to sound wrong either, but you'll be able to manipulate that information as you see fit rather than manipulation the information you've learning from someone elses manipulation of the information. Or Chinese whispers to sum it up.

Absolutely transcribe stuff and analyse it as well. There is a wealth of information to be learned from that but Jeff's approach absolutely works as well since you'll have a far more thorough understanding of the raw material to create stuff with.

Does jeff go into detail on why his lessons are harmonically perfect? Or the purpose of the exercise? Or is it up to the student to extract that information? I have only been playing for just over 6 months so I may not grasp theory to an advanced level. I am trying to connect the dots! Thank you!!
 
He doesn't but you don't need to grasp any theory to benefit from this stuff. The whole first package will be great if you work through it exactly as it's presented since it's systematic development. The purpose of the etudes is kind of stated in the title 'Whole Across All 4 Strings' is fairly self explanatory. You won't get anything on the page that isn't covered in that title. Then you might move onto 'Half Notes'. Then 'Half Notes & Whole Notes'. So you never move forward without attaching it to what you've previously done. The title always explains whats going on. So by the end of Package 1 you will be a competent reader having started from open strings. The other packages are in the same vein, if one of them says Cmin7b5 the etude is built entirely from that and nothing else. Harmonic movement and melodic content is derived exclusively from those chord tones or a scale etc. But you are required to really think about where the notes are on the instrument and execute the music across the neck.

Jeff has done the work in giving you music that is well thought out, so you don't have to do anything outside of work through the etudes.
 
He doesn't but you don't need to grasp any theory to benefit from this stuff. The whole first package will be great if you work through it exactly as it's presented since it's systematic development. The purpose of the etudes is kind of stated in the title 'Whole Across All 4 Strings' is fairly self explanatory. You won't get anything on the page that isn't covered in that title. Then you might move onto 'Half Notes'. Then 'Half Notes & Whole Notes'. So you never move forward without attaching it to what you've previously done. The title always explains whats going on. So by the end of Package 1 you will be a competent reader having started from open strings. The other packages are in the same vein, if one of them says Cmin7b5 the etude is built entirely from that and nothing else. Harmonic movement and melodic content is derived exclusively from those chord tones or a scale etc. But you are required to really think about where the notes are on the instrument and execute the music across the neck.

Jeff has done the work in giving you music that is well thought out, so you don't have to do anything outside of work through the etudes.

Thank you again for your answer! So would you say that taking a theory specific course say on Chord Tones would be essential on top of this? Or that in learning these etudes will develop my theory through musical application? I would love to be able to create great bass lines and do jazz improv someday but I don't want to run before I walk! ;)
 
The cool thing is, that say when you get to the etudes on chord tones the first thing you see on the page is the chord tones written out over 4 bars or whatever. Then it's straight into the etudes so you should be able to see how those kinds of chords are built but it doesn't explain the formula behind it or anything, so in that regard sure digging into the theory thing is going to help you extract more gold beneath the surface of them.

I'd say these etude are certainly lean into the application realm but even then it's just cold hard musical fact you are dealing with. You might not have cool ideas to play over a Major7#11 chord but you will have spent enough time shedding the chord tones in every conceivable permutation over the neck that when you land on said chord you have the chord tones so ingrained into your playing that you'll be able to draw on them easier and thus develop ideas.

I think the goal you are after this stuff is great for because you've exhausted the building blocks to such an extent the only thing left is what you want to do with them or to absorb what players did with the same knowledge you've just gotten together. I've had them for years and I'm still unearthing gold and having my butt kicked with them because I often really have to think about things. It's absolutely been using them in teaching and seeing how much students develop that really cemented them for me.
 
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Bumping this thread up to get peoples thoughts about his new walking book that’s coming out this week. Anyone had their eye on it and plan on picking it up? It’s coming out this Friday 11/27. @BrotherMister @India_Sierra
 
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Bumping this thread up to get peoples thoughts about his new walking book that’s coming out this week. Anyone had their eye on it and plan on picking it up? It’s coming out this Friday 11/27. @BrotherMister @India_Sierra

I've not seen much about it outside of the fact it is happening. The price seems fairly reasonable chances are I probably will for the sake of having more teaching material. I'll probably end up writing another detailed review of them over the weekend.
 
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I've not seen much about it outside of the fact it is happening. The price seems fairly reasonable chances are I probably will for the sake of having more teaching material. I'll probably end up writing another detailed review of them over the weekend.

Thanks @BrotherMister ! I was hoping you might say something like that. I’m curious if it’ll be similar to the Mike Richmond book.
 
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