Jeff Berlin Discussing Music Ed

[JeffBerlin]

I didn't know we needed to respond to it because it seems like common sense! I agree, by the way.
In fact, I think it is the most important point in this whole thread that it bares repeating:
Academics and art are separate

Well said! If you apply this difference in your musical life, then you will improve in two musical areas. Good luck!

 

[JeffBerlin]

Jeff, I wish to become a proficient jazz bass player (I have played for around a year now and have begun writing my own lines, while studying Rufus Reid's "Evolving Bassist" with my teacher). However, I also would love to study the physical sciences in college. The most I'm going to delve into music is (at most) a jazz studies minor. Maybe.

Do you think that this is an attainable goal seeing as I will not be attending music school? I'm currently trying to get lessons with one of the more well-known bassists in the area, and practice around 3 hours a day (includes transcribing, writing, etc.).

I know that you do not know me as a musician, but from this text could you give me any advice on reaching such a high level of playing?

I assume that most colleges or universities have a music department. You can study with their teachers and hopefully, they know what and how to teach you. Another thought is to locate the best jazz players in your town (assuming that your town actually have any). They might guide you toward musical improvement as well.

High levels of playing happen as quickly as it takes somebody to climb Mt. Everest. It TAKES A LONG TIME AND THERE ARE OBSTACLES IN YOUR WAY. Because I know this and because I am not bothered with instant gratification nor annoyed by bad practice or band playing days, I steadily improve even though I am three years away from being sixty. Learn from my experience; study regularly, study the "good stuff" and don't learn music in time except to count it. Once you've learned it, you will be in time anyway, so keep practicing this way. Good luck.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Hi Jeff,

I'm wondering, from you as a teacher, where in a students progression do you introduce scales and how do you present them for study?

I recently have been taking some of the melodic minor modes and using them to find passing tones and approach notes for the chord tones of those scales - kinda ala' "chord studies for trombone". Wondering if I'm on the right path with my thinking.

Thank you,
Tim

It is hard to say. I don't know what you know, and I don't know what you are actually studying, in what manner, at what tempo, in what keys.

I am quite certain that you are teaching yourself and I recommend that you stop this. Find a great jazz teacher (no music offers more academic bite than jazz music does). Take those lessons and get to work. Your teacher will keep you on the straight and narrow, to get you to learn correctly. Best of luck!

 

[Hoover]

jazz is probably the most harmonically complex music in the non-classical/modern world.

Sure, but that's a bit like saying "eggs are the roundest food in the Dairy aisle" ...you're ignoring the fact that every supermarket in the civilized world also has a Fruit & Vegetable aisle full of numerous contenders for the Roundest title.

I suspect a generalization that better serves this argument would be "jazz is probably the most harmonically complex music a jobbing electric bassist is likely to encounter on a typical gig", yes?

 

[JeffBerlin]

1

 

[JeffBerlin]

There are many bass teachers out there. How do you know who the great ones are? Like I said, I am teaching my self right now and I know how you feel about that. I would like to find a teacher that I know I will learn from and teach the right way.

Know any good teachers in Washington State?

From the 20 pages that I've read so far, you seem to emphasize learning jazz not for the sake of learning it to play jazz but rather that jazz will teach you strong fundamentals and theory of not just bass but any other style/form of music. Can you confirm/clarify this?

Thank you.

A good teacher is a teacher who teaches musical principles that have already been established and proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. There are so many exercises and homeworks that have been 100% validated in helping you to improve as a player, but many, maybe too many teachers don't know what they are. The only suggestion that I can make is to ask around and see what the rep of the teacher that you are interested in has. Ask great jazz players who they think is a great teacher. It is the best way to get good advice.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Hi Jeff,

this is a rather odd and complicated question:

it deals with the fourth etude for the e flat dom7 chord. the second bar goes like this (as written):

c-b flat-g-e flat -- d flat-a-c-b flat -- d-e flat-g-b flat -- b flat-d-e flat --

my question is concerned with the use of b´s, #´s and ♮´s in this book. generally it seems that every note is treated for itself, meaning even if there´s a raised or flat note of the same pitch earlier in the bar it doesn´t matter, you got to play what is written. so in this case the 8th and 14th note of the bar (both d´s) would be d´s and not d flat´s. and also you wouldn´t need any ♮´s at all...

on the other hand bar for of the studie begins with two ♮´s.

this makes it a little hard to handle the etudes with a lot of b´s, #´s and ♮´s.

i hope you understand what i meanrollno and maybe even find the time to look at this etude and share your opinion on it.

btw if anyone else has something to say about this i´d be happy too...

Thanks bench

Sorry young man, but I don't understand the question. Maybe someone else can decipher it for me.

 

[tZer]

Sorry young man, but I don't understand the question. Maybe someone else can decipher it for me.

My bet is he's confused by accidentals and how their used.

bench - do you know what accidentals are?

 

[smeet]

I think he's saying that the book uses accidentals in a non-traditional way, so that an sharped/flatted note is not automatically sharped/flatted for the remainder of the bar.

I don't think that's true. I think the notation in the book is the same as any other music. If the B is "accidented" at the beginning of the bar, it applies to the rest of the bar as well. There may be typos, but I'm pretty sure that is the intention. It's standard notation.

 

[JeffBerlin]

I think he's saying that the book uses accidentals in a non-traditional way, so that an sharped/flatted note is not automatically sharped/flatted for the remainder of the bar.

I don't think that's true. I think the notation in the book is the same as any other music. If the B is "accidented" at the beginning of the bar, it applies to the rest of the bar as well. There may be typos, but I'm pretty sure that is the intention. It's standard notation.

Correct! If a note is sharped or flattened, the same note on that staff line or space retains the altered pitch sound until the next bar begins. This is standard notational facts. I hope that this was the question that he asked.

 

[fountain boy]

Yes, i agree Jeff with your counsel to me, in particular, and welcome your observations. I can appreciate the stern truth.

I am no where near the playing level i thought i would've been at when i intially started. Playing bass (or attempting to, lol) is one instrument that'll keep you honest, as all it takes is for me to hear from others, what i desire to myself on the instrument.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Yes, i agree Jeff with your counsel to me, in particular, and welcome your observations. I can appreciate the stern truth.

I am no where near the playing level i thought i would've been at when i intially started. Playing bass (or attempting to, lol) is one instrument that'll keep you honest, as all it takes is for me to hear from others, what i desire to myself on the instrument.

In time, you could pass me by, but only if you keep music at the center of your playing life. By the way, I like that comment, "the stern truth! Very impressive. It is nothing more than hearing what is, rather than what one wants. The truth is, musical improvement takes effort and the right kinds of material. I just tell people things and speak with them as adults. This is one reason why I dislike forums; they are social clubs, not places to improve or find much good guidance. I am here to talk music and have fun doing it. I am not here to defend myself, not anymore. If some wish to follow my advice, then great. If others prefer not do to this, then fine for them. It is no skin off my nose. I love music too much to try and make more than a concise effort anymore to pass along some basic logic about playing. For anybody who doesn't like what I say, then fine. The truth is, I've survived in a business for over 35 years, where so many colleagues of the past have not. Many of my past colleagues are gone, disapeared because they thought that they knew more about music and playing than they really did. Some didn't like what I used to say years ago about getting serious either. The reality of our industry caught up to them. I don't want this to happen to others, and so, I will tell you what you need to hear. I hope that others are like you, able to hear some truths and use them to their advantage. Good for you!!!

P.S. Some here have said that they don't have professional aspirations. But, logically, if one owns an instrument, then one must have an interest in playing it, just for the pleasure of making music come from it. To do this, you need to know what the notes are, and how to make those notes come from your bass. In other words, even a half decent amateur has to know how to play or else their instrument can't bring them much pleasure. Learn well, and you will play well.

 

[Eminentbass]

Sure, but that's a bit like saying "eggs are the roundest food in the Dairy aisle" ...you're ignoring the fact that every supermarket in the civilized world also has a Fruit & Vegetable aisle full of numerous contenders for the Roundest title.

I suspect a generalization that better serves this argument would be "jazz is probably the most harmonically complex music a jobbing electric bassist is likely to encounter on a typical gig", yes?

My point in saying that jazz is the most harmonically complex music in the non-classical/modern world(modern contemporary musical world would be more apt i suppose) has to do with the fact that there are only twelve notes in western music but jazz will give you the opportunity to explore the most varied and vast combinations of what chord voicings, chord sequences and melodic options are available with these notes. That is at the very least just great ear training and a way to get familiar with one's instrument, regardless of the style of music one chooses to pursue.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I assume that most colleges or universities have a music department. You can study with their teachers and hopefully, they know what and how to teach you. Another thought is to locate the best jazz players in your town (assuming that your town actually have any). They might guide you toward musical improvement as well.

High levels of playing happen as quickly as it takes somebody to climb Mt. Everest. It TAKES A LONG TIME AND THERE ARE OBSTACLES IN YOUR WAY. Because I know this and because I am not bothered with instant gratification nor annoyed by bad practice or band playing days, I steadily improve even though I am three years away from being sixty. Learn from my experience; study regularly, study the "good stuff" and don't learn music in time except to count it. Once you've learned it, you will be in time anyway, so keep practicing this way. Good luck.

Thanks man. Yeah, I'm actually trying to contact a pretty reputable jazz double bassist that teaches at a music school nearby me and has toured with some greats (I'm in the Twin Cities which, as far as I know, has a pretty great jazz scene).

I made sure that all of the colleges I applied to had very respectable music schools, also.

Also, I have stopped using a metronome in my practice routine. Not because of what you've said here, but because I'm pretty sure my one year old nephew hid it somewhere in the house. Fate, maybe?

Thanks to all the pros in here who are answering Q's.

 

[geeza]

Learn well, and you will play well.

Nicely stated.

...and on edit: sigged.

 

[bench]

I think he's saying that the book uses accidentals in a non-traditional way, so that an sharped/flatted note is not automatically sharped/flatted for the remainder of the bar.

I don't think that's true. I think the notation in the book is the same as any other music. If the B is "accidented" at the beginning of the bar, it applies to the rest of the bar as well. There may be typos, but I'm pretty sure that is the intention. It's standard notation.

that´s exactly what i mean, i didn´t know the word "accidentals", in germany they´re called "Vorzeichen"...

But they are definitely not used in the traditional way in the chord studies book and that´s my problem....

if you look at the first three etudes for each chord (the ones with the approach notes...) they use an accidental for every sharped/flatted note in the bar and NOT in the traditional way with one accidental for the whole bar.

the real problem with this way of notation, at least for me, is the use of naturals (is it the right word this: ♮ ???) which seems contradictory to using an accidental for every note...

i hope that someone looks at etude 4 of the e flat dom7 chord, esp. bar 2 and four.....

 

[bench]

for clarification i took two photos:

the first shows an example of the use of accidentals.

the second shows the two bars i was talking about (e flat dom7). Would you play the d´s in the upper bar (8th and 13th note) as d or as d flat? And what about the naturals in the beginning of the lower bar (f and e)?

hope that works....

thanks bench

 

[basmartin]

for clarification i took two photos:

the first shows an example of the use of accidentals.

the second shows the two bars i was talking about (e flat dom7). Would you play the d´s in the upper bar (8th and 13th note) as d or as d flat? And what about the naturals in the beginning of the lower bar (f and e)?

hope that works....

thanks bench

D-flat, that accidental remains the whole bar. About the naturals in the lower bars, I need to know the key signature to comment on that. But if you look att the previous bar, the last note is an F-sharp, right? The first note in the next bar is an F-natural. Sometimes you use accidentals as a reminders, in this case it reminds that the F is back to natural.

 

[Freddels]

^^ and sometimes there are typo's so you have to use your ear.

 

[Eminentbass]

Hi jeff, i asked this a while back but it probably got flooded in the mass of debates(which i'm guilty of adding to). Is the harmony/theory book that is used at the Player's School available from the school or online at all? I've ordered Chord Studies but i'm also looking for a general non-bass specific source of information. Thank you.