Jeff Berlin fired by Frank Zappa

[ElMon]

Ok, can someone explain to me why Frank would ever fire such an amazing musician? What happened exactly?

Because he had another musician to take his place that could cover the 'thin tone played in front of the beat vibe'?

 

[jerry]

frank zappa using tab made me lol irl.

There is a great Classic Album documentary where Ruth Underwood shows a piece of music Frank wrote out for her freehand, it was impeccable!

 

[bassist15]

I would guess Jeff Berlin started showing off his chops. Frank didnt really like the bassist to be to flashy. Jack Bruce played on Apostrophe and in an interview Frank states Jack played to busily and he didn't like that in a bassist. He liked a bass player to hold the groove. doesnt sound to much like Jeff Berlin to me.

 

[superbassman2000]

I think that it's ok that Berlin got the boot from Zappa--it seems to me that maybe by paying everyone the same, it keeps everyone's ego in check. Once someone gets paid more than others based on skill level, you are asking for band drama, because while you may think Berlin deserves more money than another guy, the other guy may not think Berlin is that good, and then he'll demand more money...its just unneeded tension.


just another case of chemistry winning out to superchops if you as me.

 

[Zappstorius]

The story as I understand it -- and my understanding is based on two sources: Jeff's description of the situation at a clinic he gave at Berklee in 1980 or 81, and Frank's description of the situation from his autobiography The Real Frank Zappa Book -- is that Jeff, knowing that he's such an amazing musician, basically went to Frank and said "I'm an amazing musician, I should get paid more than the other not-so-amazing musicians in your band." Frank paid all his sidemen the same salary, and told Jeff to take a hike if he wanted more money.

And lest anyone say something like "Berlin is an arrogant egotistical blowhard for thinking he's so much better that he deserves more money"

...he got the idea from Vinnie Coliuta, who made the exact same request and was also fired by Frank.

+1 That's my understanding of it also. But there were plenty of fabulous musicians in FZ's band over the years...Terry Bozzio, Steve Vai, Arthur Barrow etc...so the deal that Berlin was so much better than everyone else is a bit of an overstatement.

It was always FZ's band...he wrote all the music, did all the production, artwork, video etc so he can hire and fire whoever he wanted to.

 

[phxlbrmpf]

Because he had another musician to take his place that could cover the 'thin tone played in front of the beat vibe'?

What, like himself?

Please don't hurt me, I love Frank's music but really don't care for his guitar playing, his tone and note choice always struck me as icky.

 

[xlows]

Because he had another musician to take his place that could cover the 'thin tone played in front of the beat vibe'?

 

[Barkless Dog]

Zappa was a genius, both as a composer and a guitarist.

It was his show, he always made that clear. He was never disrespectful or abusive to his musicians. He gave nobodies a chance based on their talent. He discovered and made so many musicians careers. He pushed musicians to their musical limits and expected 100% from them. He basically never made a lot of money. Any money he did make went into his next project or tour.


I dont know what happened between them, but I have to believe Zappa was fair.

Don't be knocking Frank. Read his autobiography for enlightenment

 

[T-MOST]

Zappa was a genius, both as a composer and a guitarist.

It was his show, he always made that clear. He was never disrespectful or abusive to his musicians. He gave nobodies a chance based on their talent. He discovered and made so many musicians careers. He pushed musicians to their musical limits and expected 100% from them. He basically never made a lot of money. Any money he did make went into his next project or tour.


I dont know what happened between them, but I have to believe Zappa was fair.

Don't be knocking Frank. Read his autobiography for enlightenment

maybe I will check out some Zappa. I have never heard a single Zappa tune. Most people just say it's "different".

 

[john turner]

There is a great Classic Album documentary where Ruth Underwood shows a piece of music Frank wrote out for her freehand, it was impeccable!

of course it was. frank -was- a genius. that term - genius - is tossed around a lot today, but the real deal is exceedingly rare. frank was one. folks will still be playing his music in a hundred years.

 

[cowsgomoo]

Jeff is by anyone's standards an excellent musician, but there were always dozens of guys equally excellent available to take the place of any musician in the Zappa band

from what i've learned about Jeff Berlin's personality, I can't imagine he'd have what it took to keep his mouth shut and play Frank's music without pissing everyone off even more than Scott Thunes did... to play that comedy music you probably need to have a sense of humor, and I've not seen much evidence that Jeff Berlin has one of those... Jeff Berlin & Frank Zappa doesn't seem like a good fit to me

anyway, the fact FZ hired Scott Thunes shortly afterwards indicates that the jettisoning of Jeff Berlin wasn't exactly a move to regret...

sacking Vinnie Colaiuta for the same thing was far, far more significant, because Vinnie was probably in the 'top 5 most influential Zappa sidemen ever' (the other 4 probably were Ian Underwood, Ruth Underwood, Terry Bozzio & George Duke... in my humble opinion)

 

[the_stone]

Wasn't that when he had Thunes on bass? I never understood why the others hated him so much, he seemed like an excellent bassist.

As far as the 1988 band with Thunes, check out the section of Mike Keneally's website called "Really, Keneally?" Scroll down towards the bottom, and he offers his own take of the band's breakup.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[Benjamin Strange]

of course it was. frank -was- a genius. that term - genius - is tossed around a lot today, but the real deal is exceedingly rare. frank was one. folks will still be playing his music in a hundred years.

That is, of course, only if people don't get tired of poop jokes 100 years from now. However, seeing that poop jokes haven't gotten old over the last 10,000 years, I don't think that's going to happen.

 

[jomahu]

he should have hired jaco.

 

[cowsgomoo]

That is, of course, only if people don't get tired of poop jokes 100 years from now. However, seeing that poop jokes haven't gotten old over the last 10,000 years, I don't think that's going to happen.

did you hear about the time he and Captain Beefheart (or maybe it was Alice Cooper) had a 'gross-out' contest on stage, and Alice Beefheart stepped on some conveniently present baby chickens, took a dump on stage and challenged Frank to top that, which he promptly did by eating the poop... it's true, some guy told me

oh, and there's a poster of him sat on the toilet, so I guess that cements FZ's reputation as 'purveyor of poop jokes'... all that music he did is kinda irrelevant compared to that stuff... testament to the power of poop

his work wasn't about consciously juxtaposing and colliding the highest of art forms and the lowest of mankind's preoccupations... oh no.. it was just about a few poop jokes

 

[Chebass88]

did you hear about the time he and Captain Beefheart (or maybe it was Alice Cooper) had a 'gross-out' contest on stage, and Alice Beefheart stepped on some conveniently present baby chickens, took a dump on stage and challenged Frank to top that, which he promptly did by eating the poop... it's true, some guy told me

Sorry to correct you on this one, but Zappa dispells this rumor in the preface to his autobiography.

I also want a nasty little Jewish Princess, with long phony nails & a hairdo that rinses... With a couple of sisters that can raise a few blisters...

imp.

 

[john turner]

Jeff is by anyone's standards an excellent musician, but there were always dozens of guys equally excellent available to take the place of any musician in the Zappa band

from what i've learned about Jeff Berlin's personality, I can't imagine he'd have what it took to keep his mouth shut and play Frank's music without pissing everyone off even more than Scott Thunes did... to play that comedy music you probably need to have a sense of humor, and I've not seen much evidence that Jeff Berlin has one of those... Jeff Berlin & Frank Zappa doesn't seem like a good fit to me

anyway, the fact FZ hired Scott Thunes shortly afterwards indicates that the jettisoning of Jeff Berlin wasn't exactly a move to regret...

sacking Vinnie Colaiuta for the same thing was far, far more significant, because Vinnie was probably in the 'top 5 most influential Zappa sidemen ever' (the other 4 probably were Ian Underwood, Ruth Underwood, Terry Bozzio & George Duke... in my humble opinion)

can't forget adrian belew and steve vai. and chad wackerman. jack bruce.

 

[john turner]

That is, of course, only if people don't get tired of poop jokes 100 years from now. However, seeing that poop jokes haven't gotten old over the last 10,000 years, I don't think that's going to happen.

if you think that poop jokes is the sum total of frank's contribution to music, you're missing out.

 

[Benjamin Strange]

if you think that poop jokes is the sum total of frank's contribution to music, you're missing out.

I'm not missing out on anything - I love Zappa. If anybody can make poop jokes rock in 7/8, it's Frank.

 

[prattguy]

I'm not missing out on anything - I love Zappa. If anybody can make poop jokes rock in 7/8, it's Frank.