Just apologize for over-using the chorus pedal....
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Jeff Berlin Speaks
- Thread starter wraub
- Start date
A few Jeff's quotes.
Jeff Berlin about the "TB situation" in 2010:
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"JB: I don’t really have too much to say about that whole incident. I was hosting a forum where I would offer suggestions to people about how to learn to play the bass. I’ve always been pretty outspoken about what I think about most of the teaching methods used in music these days and I guess that rubs some people the wrong way. So, some of the comments people wrote were a little mean-spirited and I ended up getting into it with the TalkBass moderators, who didn’t like the way I responded to those comments. Looking back on it, I guess I’d have to say there was wrongdoing on both sides. I’d just like to put the whole thing behind me and move on."
Jeff Berlin interview
"DM: When someone asks me who Jeff Berlin is, what should I tell them?
JB: I am a guy who will tell you the truth. I am a guy who is extremely grateful to the people who support me and my music. I am a guy who is still learning and appreciating this fact.
I don’t believe in Peace! I believe in Truth, and Truth is rarely a peaceful endeavor! But only a few people now understand this. Perhaps more will get this point one day."
Jeff Berlin - Vision quest
"Innerviews: Do you foresee any further work with Bruford in the future?
JB. Eventually. We're pals, but Bill has a need to use Tony Levin for the type of music he's hearing. I play 10,000 notes and Tony plays two. Bill needed that. It made sense to his music. Perhaps one day he'll need me or I'll need him in another capacity.
If the new album is any indication, you're not a 10,000-note player anymore.
True. These days, Tony plays two notes, whereas I play about seven. [laughs]
What accounts for that shift?
Middle age and getting older. I can tear up a fretboard in fast tempos, but I found it wasn't necessary to do so. My playing is changing and evolving. That's partly due to having a vision of my own. It only took me 40 years to get here."
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"JB.:Two thoughts are important to begin my reasons why I am not pleased with how players both teach or learn.
1. Bass teachers are often self taught. This means that while they often are terrific players (as the self taught approach to learning works wonderfully) the difficulty that I see is that teachers can't teach a subject if they don't know how it works. And 2. Playing and learning are two different subjects completely. Here I will be clear: Teachers that teach, say, feel, art, groove, spirit, studio playing, working well with drummers, dynamics, fingering exercises, and many other approaches to learning that are non-music centric, are teaching to lessons that are actually learned for free via the self taught experience. What is the benefit of paying money to teachers to learn musical principles that all great players have learned on their own and for free?"
...
These next comments are certainly going to be considered controversial. In this forum, I will have a chance to explain my thoughts to show people the reason for my comments. They are all invited to come here and question my statements, which are these:
Your job is to seek out a teacher that knows music and can teach it to you. I suggest that you not study with any teacher that talks about gigs, chops, technique, groove, or heart/emotion in playing. Anything other than the function of music on your instrument is a diluting of the learning experience."
I know that groove lesson, technique, and a million other concepts are what many bass players pay attention to. But, no one to my knowledge improves by attending to these and other non-academic issues because practically no one actually has a problem with groove/time or technique at all.You've just been told that you do and many believed what they were told. All players share the same problem; we have a problem about what music to play in time and which requires certain technique to play it. If all similar problems shared by almost everyone are the same (and they are) then players therefore will share the same musical benefits by using music to fix them...
Rock lessons, slap lessons, using tab. practicing with metronomes, won't make bass players play better. There is only one way to improve in academic training and this way is narrow and to the point musical content. This approach to learning always worked in improving anyone that entered into studying this way. Write me here if you disagree so that we can discuss this. Regards to all from Jeff."
Jeff Berlin about the "TB situation" in 2010:
Invalid Link Removed
"JB: I don’t really have too much to say about that whole incident. I was hosting a forum where I would offer suggestions to people about how to learn to play the bass. I’ve always been pretty outspoken about what I think about most of the teaching methods used in music these days and I guess that rubs some people the wrong way. So, some of the comments people wrote were a little mean-spirited and I ended up getting into it with the TalkBass moderators, who didn’t like the way I responded to those comments. Looking back on it, I guess I’d have to say there was wrongdoing on both sides. I’d just like to put the whole thing behind me and move on."
Jeff Berlin interview
"DM: When someone asks me who Jeff Berlin is, what should I tell them?
JB: I am a guy who will tell you the truth. I am a guy who is extremely grateful to the people who support me and my music. I am a guy who is still learning and appreciating this fact.
I don’t believe in Peace! I believe in Truth, and Truth is rarely a peaceful endeavor! But only a few people now understand this. Perhaps more will get this point one day."
Jeff Berlin - Vision quest
"Innerviews: Do you foresee any further work with Bruford in the future?
JB. Eventually. We're pals, but Bill has a need to use Tony Levin for the type of music he's hearing. I play 10,000 notes and Tony plays two. Bill needed that. It made sense to his music. Perhaps one day he'll need me or I'll need him in another capacity.
If the new album is any indication, you're not a 10,000-note player anymore.
True. These days, Tony plays two notes, whereas I play about seven. [laughs]
What accounts for that shift?
Middle age and getting older. I can tear up a fretboard in fast tempos, but I found it wasn't necessary to do so. My playing is changing and evolving. That's partly due to having a vision of my own. It only took me 40 years to get here."
Invalid Link Removed
"JB.:Two thoughts are important to begin my reasons why I am not pleased with how players both teach or learn.
1. Bass teachers are often self taught. This means that while they often are terrific players (as the self taught approach to learning works wonderfully) the difficulty that I see is that teachers can't teach a subject if they don't know how it works. And 2. Playing and learning are two different subjects completely. Here I will be clear: Teachers that teach, say, feel, art, groove, spirit, studio playing, working well with drummers, dynamics, fingering exercises, and many other approaches to learning that are non-music centric, are teaching to lessons that are actually learned for free via the self taught experience. What is the benefit of paying money to teachers to learn musical principles that all great players have learned on their own and for free?"
...
These next comments are certainly going to be considered controversial. In this forum, I will have a chance to explain my thoughts to show people the reason for my comments. They are all invited to come here and question my statements, which are these:
Your job is to seek out a teacher that knows music and can teach it to you. I suggest that you not study with any teacher that talks about gigs, chops, technique, groove, or heart/emotion in playing. Anything other than the function of music on your instrument is a diluting of the learning experience."
I know that groove lesson, technique, and a million other concepts are what many bass players pay attention to. But, no one to my knowledge improves by attending to these and other non-academic issues because practically no one actually has a problem with groove/time or technique at all.You've just been told that you do and many believed what they were told. All players share the same problem; we have a problem about what music to play in time and which requires certain technique to play it. If all similar problems shared by almost everyone are the same (and they are) then players therefore will share the same musical benefits by using music to fix them...
Rock lessons, slap lessons, using tab. practicing with metronomes, won't make bass players play better. There is only one way to improve in academic training and this way is narrow and to the point musical content. This approach to learning always worked in improving anyone that entered into studying this way. Write me here if you disagree so that we can discuss this. Regards to all from Jeff."
Jeff Berlin' comments about Victor Wooten's camp:
"Jeff Berlin Hi Berthold. Those students are there and if you only teach great content in music, you will gain a reputation as a guy that teaches well. Finally, any student that goes to study with you has to know that you are the boss. Be kind, but be firm. It is your way or the highway. Your students will thank you for it one day. There is entirely too much ass kissing these days going on with learning. Once, I did a seminar at Victor Wooten's camp. A student told me that he could play and he disagreed with most of what I said. I invited him up to show me what he could do. He couldn't play what I asked of him and he was furious with me. Music made a liar out of him (it does with us all!) But he wanted to hear that he knew more than he really did. He was humiliated in front of people with the truth of his musical ability. Instead of thanking me for showing him where he needed to fix his mistakes, he probably hasn't forgiven me to this day for it.
… If I object about music education, groove classes, wearing blindfolds to develop one's ability to listen better (a principle that does not work) paying for metal classes, turning metronomes on and off to suggest how time continues in your mind, and in general dumbing down music education so that players won't be upset by the responsibility of working for their art, this is one of the people that would understand completely what I was talking about.
There was no one like Charlie Banacos…."
Victor Wooten's Response to Jeff Berlin:
Hey Jeff, my friend.
Let me start by saying that I admire your playing. I always have. I can even remember learning many of your solos and compositions in my earlier days. U were one of the players I used to follow. I also remember reading your words years ago and understanding where U seemed to be coming from. It seems that now, as we’ve gotten older, either your message has changed or my understanding of them has. It definitely seems that the message behind your words is what I seem to disagree with the most.
I’ve been repeatedly lead to your posts like the one below, and for the first time, I feel that I must reply. I can understand and appreciate when U post your “opinions’, even when I feel they are ridiculous, but when U post things that are outright lies and treat them as fact, I feel the urge to respond – especially now that U are actually mentioning my name. Why would U ask me to record, tour, do clinics with U, and invite U back to my camp when U continue to put down what U “believe” my friends and I stand for. Actually, why would anyone invite U back?
Again, I appreciate you opinions, but please keep it as that because your “facts” are lacking in facts. U are screaming so hard to be heard and appreciated that U are showing parts of yourself that make it clear U are really screaming for help. (U and I have talked about that in the past and we can continue in private if U want.)
I know that medication can affect memory. Maybe meditation along with medication can help. At my camp, not only did U say the rudest thing I’ve ever heard said about female bassists (and yes, U said it in front of a crowd of youngsters,) but your recollection of what happened when U called up a student to play is totally inaccurate. To make sure my facts are correct. I listened to the recording of your visit. Here’s what actually happened:
At my camp, the person U called to the stage was Denson Angulo. Denson perfectly executed everything U asked him to do. U even responded that he was an exceptional player and that because of how people responded when U chose him, he must’ve been known as a good player. U continued to try to demolish him by finding things he couldn’t do, but to your surprise, he answered your every call and succeeded at doing everything U asked.
Here’s what U said after Denson finished. “Denson proved, proved…and I gotta be clear that anybody who has the sense of the music they are going to play will eventually play it excellently! …Does anyone have a problem with that?”
Listen to this, Mr. Angulo is now DR. Angulo - a Doctor of Music - a title not even U or I have. He is also the principle bassist in the Salt Lake Symphony in Utah and teaches jazz bass at the Univ. of Utah – something else U and I will never do. Plus, Denson is a friend of mine. He should be respected, not lied about. I know that he would not lie about U. I’m sure that he is not even talking about U right now. I wish U would offer the same respect to him and everyone else.
U also state in your post: “I did a seminar at Victor Wooten's camp. A student told me that he could play and he disagreed with most of what I said. I invited him up to show me what he could do. He couldn't play what I asked of him and he was furious with me. Music made a liar out of him.” Well Jeff, I don’t remember that incident. If U are talking about Denson Angulo in that post, U are either outright lying or your memory is. Either way, DR Argulo deserves an apology. If that is the way U remember an incident that both Denson and I have a recording of, it makes a liar out of U, not Denson.
About me, If U want to know anything about me, stop making it up, stop asking your students, and stop speculating.- ask me instead. As, I’ve urged U to do in the past, if U have a problem with me, CALL ME. I hope U would offer me that respect rather than lie about me, my friends, my teachings, and beliefs (which U obviously know NOTHING about.) For U to do it in the public way that U repeatedly do ultimately makes U look bad.
In the past, Bass and bassists have always been about support. Whether on purpose or not, U have done much to change that. U seem to be about yourself under the disguise of education. U may own a bass, but U do not own bass education, nor are U even at the forefront of it. Neither am I. Together, we are just a part of a growing world. So, please stop trying to dictate what it is and how it should be. State your opinion and leave it at that, and leave the rest of us alone.
Many of us don’t like what U are saying and it’s causing us to not like you as a person despite what U have done musically. Again, I’m asking U loud and clear to realize that U are only hurting yourself. Those of us that care about U can see that. U should be digging other people and their ideas, but instead U are digging yourself deeper and deeper into a lonely hole that will be difficult to rise out of. U will wake up one day, I’m sure of that.
My mom was right when she asked and stated, “What does the world need with another good bass player? The world needs more good people.” That is what my life, my music, my books, and my teachings will always be about. My mom’s words ring loud and clear every time I read your posts. I urge U to think about them sooner than later.
In closing, my friend, I’m here for U, but don’t expect a FB dialogue from me. If U want to continue, call me or better yet, keep quiet and let your music do the talking. I’ll be listening.
Peace, Vic
"Jeff Berlin Hi Berthold. Those students are there and if you only teach great content in music, you will gain a reputation as a guy that teaches well. Finally, any student that goes to study with you has to know that you are the boss. Be kind, but be firm. It is your way or the highway. Your students will thank you for it one day. There is entirely too much ass kissing these days going on with learning. Once, I did a seminar at Victor Wooten's camp. A student told me that he could play and he disagreed with most of what I said. I invited him up to show me what he could do. He couldn't play what I asked of him and he was furious with me. Music made a liar out of him (it does with us all!) But he wanted to hear that he knew more than he really did. He was humiliated in front of people with the truth of his musical ability. Instead of thanking me for showing him where he needed to fix his mistakes, he probably hasn't forgiven me to this day for it.
… If I object about music education, groove classes, wearing blindfolds to develop one's ability to listen better (a principle that does not work) paying for metal classes, turning metronomes on and off to suggest how time continues in your mind, and in general dumbing down music education so that players won't be upset by the responsibility of working for their art, this is one of the people that would understand completely what I was talking about.
There was no one like Charlie Banacos…."
Victor Wooten's Response to Jeff Berlin:
Hey Jeff, my friend.
Let me start by saying that I admire your playing. I always have. I can even remember learning many of your solos and compositions in my earlier days. U were one of the players I used to follow. I also remember reading your words years ago and understanding where U seemed to be coming from. It seems that now, as we’ve gotten older, either your message has changed or my understanding of them has. It definitely seems that the message behind your words is what I seem to disagree with the most.
I’ve been repeatedly lead to your posts like the one below, and for the first time, I feel that I must reply. I can understand and appreciate when U post your “opinions’, even when I feel they are ridiculous, but when U post things that are outright lies and treat them as fact, I feel the urge to respond – especially now that U are actually mentioning my name. Why would U ask me to record, tour, do clinics with U, and invite U back to my camp when U continue to put down what U “believe” my friends and I stand for. Actually, why would anyone invite U back?
Again, I appreciate you opinions, but please keep it as that because your “facts” are lacking in facts. U are screaming so hard to be heard and appreciated that U are showing parts of yourself that make it clear U are really screaming for help. (U and I have talked about that in the past and we can continue in private if U want.)
I know that medication can affect memory. Maybe meditation along with medication can help. At my camp, not only did U say the rudest thing I’ve ever heard said about female bassists (and yes, U said it in front of a crowd of youngsters,) but your recollection of what happened when U called up a student to play is totally inaccurate. To make sure my facts are correct. I listened to the recording of your visit. Here’s what actually happened:
At my camp, the person U called to the stage was Denson Angulo. Denson perfectly executed everything U asked him to do. U even responded that he was an exceptional player and that because of how people responded when U chose him, he must’ve been known as a good player. U continued to try to demolish him by finding things he couldn’t do, but to your surprise, he answered your every call and succeeded at doing everything U asked.
Here’s what U said after Denson finished. “Denson proved, proved…and I gotta be clear that anybody who has the sense of the music they are going to play will eventually play it excellently! …Does anyone have a problem with that?”
Listen to this, Mr. Angulo is now DR. Angulo - a Doctor of Music - a title not even U or I have. He is also the principle bassist in the Salt Lake Symphony in Utah and teaches jazz bass at the Univ. of Utah – something else U and I will never do. Plus, Denson is a friend of mine. He should be respected, not lied about. I know that he would not lie about U. I’m sure that he is not even talking about U right now. I wish U would offer the same respect to him and everyone else.
U also state in your post: “I did a seminar at Victor Wooten's camp. A student told me that he could play and he disagreed with most of what I said. I invited him up to show me what he could do. He couldn't play what I asked of him and he was furious with me. Music made a liar out of him.” Well Jeff, I don’t remember that incident. If U are talking about Denson Angulo in that post, U are either outright lying or your memory is. Either way, DR Argulo deserves an apology. If that is the way U remember an incident that both Denson and I have a recording of, it makes a liar out of U, not Denson.
About me, If U want to know anything about me, stop making it up, stop asking your students, and stop speculating.- ask me instead. As, I’ve urged U to do in the past, if U have a problem with me, CALL ME. I hope U would offer me that respect rather than lie about me, my friends, my teachings, and beliefs (which U obviously know NOTHING about.) For U to do it in the public way that U repeatedly do ultimately makes U look bad.
In the past, Bass and bassists have always been about support. Whether on purpose or not, U have done much to change that. U seem to be about yourself under the disguise of education. U may own a bass, but U do not own bass education, nor are U even at the forefront of it. Neither am I. Together, we are just a part of a growing world. So, please stop trying to dictate what it is and how it should be. State your opinion and leave it at that, and leave the rest of us alone.
Many of us don’t like what U are saying and it’s causing us to not like you as a person despite what U have done musically. Again, I’m asking U loud and clear to realize that U are only hurting yourself. Those of us that care about U can see that. U should be digging other people and their ideas, but instead U are digging yourself deeper and deeper into a lonely hole that will be difficult to rise out of. U will wake up one day, I’m sure of that.
My mom was right when she asked and stated, “What does the world need with another good bass player? The world needs more good people.” That is what my life, my music, my books, and my teachings will always be about. My mom’s words ring loud and clear every time I read your posts. I urge U to think about them sooner than later.
In closing, my friend, I’m here for U, but don’t expect a FB dialogue from me. If U want to continue, call me or better yet, keep quiet and let your music do the talking. I’ll be listening.
Peace, Vic
svtb15
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I LIKE the way he was... It was PASSIONATE! People dont know true passion these days.. AT ALL.. People confuse PASSION for other things then label that person when they cant deal ..
Most people are just tooo sensitive these days and get their panties all wound up for no reason ..
If he wants to change certain things .. Thats cool. But i hope that he does not lose his passion...
Most people are just tooo sensitive these days and get their panties all wound up for no reason ..
If he wants to change certain things .. Thats cool. But i hope that he does not lose his passion...
Exactly! Thank you. Do I really need to like someone in order to learn from him/her?
Coincidence: I was re-reading the Jeff Berlin chord tones book today!
Excellent, underrated, book. Old school. As in "do not try to work on this book without a teacher!".
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Why doesn't Victor Wooden know how to spell 'you'?
People often confuse passion and arrogance and think one entitles them to another.
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Me thinks you're the one who doesn't understand passion. Jeff's attitude was one in a million, and it was a bad one. Not passion, more like belligerence. I wish I remember the details of our brief encounter, but I don't. I do remember I happened to be with a Bkln friend (a bit of an idiot/tough guy, I'll add), who didn't have a clue who he was and was going to punch him in the face for being an ass. It was at NAMM and wouldn't have ended nicely for anyone. Anyhow... yeah.
Didn't mention at first that this does sound like a bit of 12 step work... But Jeff didn't strike me as a guy with an alcohol or drug problem. Who knows though.
I think I liked it better a few hours ago when I didn't know who Jeff Berlin was. I'm not going to be a fan or even listen to him. He really comes off like an entitled teenager. Meh.
svtb15
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Oh yea right.. Like in the bad guy. Come on! get real,
Then you go pass an veiled comment that he "may be a druggie or alcoholic" Thats ridiculous..
Ive talked with him a dozen times at NAMM. he was always nice. Harsh but NICE
Then you go pass an veiled comment that he "may be a druggie or alcoholic" Thats ridiculous..
Ive talked with him a dozen times at NAMM. he was always nice. Harsh but NICE
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Yep. That's exactly what I was saying
.How bout we just agree that we had different opinions of the guy.
I'm happy he's having a go at becoming a better man.
I think if Jeff felt the same way he wouldn't have felt compelled to make a mass apology. His passion doesn't supersede anyone else's, and I think that Jeff finally realized that.
There are 12 step problems for things other than drugs.
Probably not, I think I'll stick with Tony Levin's two notes with Bruford instead of Berlin's 10,000+.
He wasn't being "passionate" he was being an arrogant a**hole. The man was a know-it-all and to quote Joe Nerve, belligerent. He would outright lie at times and would belittle other people when he disagreed with them instead of showing them respect and countering with a meaningful discussion/debate. Talent and "passion" isn't an excuse to treat other people like crap.
Kirk. I'm trying to read between the lines a bit. There is a difference between being able to deal with difficult people who are singularly focused which drives them to do extraordinary things. And then actually being that person who has become maddened inside and shut everyone else out. While you may have liked the way he was it seems by his own words tell us doesn't much like it anymore.
I hope Jeff can find a good balance in his life.
The thing for me about a guy like Jeff Berlin is pretty basic: Is he associated with any music that non-musicians care about?
I appreciate he might be a master of technique, and that he might be able to move his fingers real fast, but beyond that, he's made very little noise beyond the pages of specialty magazines and internet forums. Nothing is inherently good or bad, this is all subjective, but many of us are in this to create some art, right? To serve a song, right?
Anything Jeff Berlin has ever done pales in comparison to guys like Adam Clayton or Peter Hook, because they have voices and helped to create music. Tony Levin has found a way to fit monster ability into the context of actual musical composition. Even Steve Vai shredding made sense on PiL's Album. Does Berlin's reputation for technique equal his reputation for creating music? I suspect the answer is no. That said, if he's more humble about all of this, good on him.
I appreciate he might be a master of technique, and that he might be able to move his fingers real fast, but beyond that, he's made very little noise beyond the pages of specialty magazines and internet forums. Nothing is inherently good or bad, this is all subjective, but many of us are in this to create some art, right? To serve a song, right?
Anything Jeff Berlin has ever done pales in comparison to guys like Adam Clayton or Peter Hook, because they have voices and helped to create music. Tony Levin has found a way to fit monster ability into the context of actual musical composition. Even Steve Vai shredding made sense on PiL's Album. Does Berlin's reputation for technique equal his reputation for creating music? I suspect the answer is no. That said, if he's more humble about all of this, good on him.
