jensen mod 32 ohm 10 for svt . opinions needed please !

[svtb15]

I have an old SVT square back from about 1970 or so... It has some recones that were done around the early 80s IIRC..
The recones were with stock parts... and they all sound great.. just some color fading..
However the Old SVT 10s seem to me to be brighter with more articulation and low mid growl that the Newer SVT style cabs or speakers do.. Is it becasue my cab has guitar speakers in it? I dont know but it sure sounds like what the new onse try to sound like..
The old style speaker also dont seem as murky as any of the newer SVT cabs...

I would love to learn more about the MODs just to see if they sound anything like the older cones.

"Upgraded;" that's funny. If by "upgraded" you mean reduced sensitivity and narrower frequency response then I guess, yes, you could say the speakers were "upgraded." The rest of us will say they were redesigned to be cheaper. Your opinion on what constituted a "true ten inch bass driver" in regards to the SVT 10" is inaccurate.

I doubt the Jensen Mod speakers are good, but for the testimony of someone who actually built an old SVT cab clone and tried them in it, you need to get in touch with okabass and read this thread.

 

[gerryjazzman]

It sounds like we're bordering on the M.O. of g****r players and their amps where we don't necessarily look upon the speakers as strictly reproducers but also as PRODUCERS. Depending on one's sound preferences a clean hifi-like reproducer may be in order OR something that theoretically is sub-optimal from a pure audio engineering point of view is desired that produces the desired effect. Creating music is an artform that uses (and sometimes abuses) technology as a means to an end. I don't think there are any wrong answers, just different ones and different tradeoffs. Whatever works for you... .

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

This half-baked idea that the SVT 10's were guitar speakers is a load of crap. It's funny that Bill is normally the first one to trot out specs for speakers as to why they will or won't work, yet the only "specs" he's provided to back up his ridiculous claims about SVT speakers are vague ones he's made-up. I have no dount that he may know how to build modern vented cabs, but that does not excuse his habit of making up false information about speakers from the past, especially when they outperform their modern counterparts.

It's a better idea to listen to someone who actually dealt with those speakers when they were new. Here's what he had to say:

Back in '73 I bought 8 10-inch SVT speakers from a local Ampeg dealer to make two 4x10 cabs (no 4x10 cabs were available from Ampeg back then). The drivers had alnico magnets and fairly stiff cones with cloth accordion surrounds. 32 ohms, all wired in paralell. Fairly low fs and reasonably long xmax as I recall.

...funny how that's gotten lost under all the BS in this thread.

 

[JimmyM]

Well it's no secret that Bill doesn't like older speakers. And it's no secret that many of us do. So he said his piece, and Psycho said his, and as always, the ultimate decision rests on the owner. So let's all group hug

 

[Crockettnj]

Originally Posted by robgrow
... fairly stiff cones ... Fairly low fs ...reasonably long xmax ..

AS I RECALL.


That's 2 fairly's and 1 reasonably, all conditioned with an "as I recall."
Emphasis added by me.

I'm just sayin, that aint the character witness you want to trot out to make your case. Other than that, I have no dog in this one. Popcorn in hand and all, is all.

 

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by robgrow
... fairly stiff cones ... Fairly low fs ...reasonably long xmax ..

AS I RECALL.


That's 2 fairly's and 1 reasonably, all conditioned with an "as I recall."
Emphasis added by me.

I'm just sayin, that aint the character witness you want to trot out to make your case. Other than that, I have no dog in this one. Popcorn in hand and all, is all.

Yeah, he should go back in a time machine and try it out again. Hey, my memory from yesterday is fuzzy.

 

[will33]

This half-baked idea that the SVT 10's were guitar speakers is a load of crap. It's funny that Bill is normally the first one to trot out specs for speakers as to why they will or won't work, yet the only "specs" he's provided to back up his ridiculous claims about SVT speakers are vague ones he's made-up. I have no dount that he may know how to build modern vented cabs, but that does not excuse his habit of making up false information about speakers from the past, especially when they outperform their modern counterparts.

It's a better idea to listen to someone who actually dealt with those speakers when they were new. Here's what he had to say:



...funny how that's gotten lost under all the BS in this thread.

Bill's coming at it from an engineers point of view and on paper, yes they pale in comaprison to modern drivers but that doesn't mean they sound bad. There were no bass specific drivers in '69 as far as I can tell save for some 18's or something. They were what was available at the time. Yes they'll fart out with little input but spreading the power between 8 of them makes it ok. It's called cone cry and guitar players pay good money for it. I don't know if it was intentional or some glorious mistake but the cab seems to go into speaker distortion somewhere around the same point the amp starts to overdrive and it sounds great, no matter what it looks like on paper. I'm not nearly the Ampeg nut that some are around here and I never did get what the big deal was until I saw (and heard) a guy playing an old square back with a head that looked like a VR but also looked like it had way too much road rash on it to be a re-issue playing it in the proper context, hard rock, and I thought to myself, "Oh, that's why". The newer SVT's never made me think that.

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Bill's coming at it from an engineers point of view

No he's not. An "engineer" would have accurate thermal and mechanical ratings for the old drivers. He has neither, only wishful thinking "fuzzy memory" of his own.

on paper, yes they pale in comaprison to modern drivers

Really? Prove that. Lets see the "facts." As it stands, very few people have actually taken the time to research the facts of old SVT speakers and I'm one of them. Bill is making his "ratings" up! I've done frequency sweep tests on old SVT 8x10 cabs. I and my friends have done historical research on both CTS and the old Eminence drivers. Bill has done neither.

There were no bass specific drivers in '69 as far as I can tell save for some 18's or something.

You need to do some research of your own. Ampeg created the entire SVT system from the ground up to be a new and loud bass amp; that included the speakers.

I'm just sayin, that aint the character witness you want to trot out to make your case. Other than that, I have no dog in this one. Popcorn in hand and all, is all.

That's a good point, but it neglects the fact that I and others here have already researched the old SVT speakers and according to the people who made them, Bill is completely off-base. There are quite a few threads about it. My reference to that post was to point out that it had been ignored, not that it was my sole point of contention. Several people here assume that simply because Bill knows how to design his own speaker cabs that he knows everything about all of them, which is not the case.

 

[will33]

By an "engineers" point of view I mean the "lower, louder and cleaner is always better" school of thought, our musical ears tell us that's not always the case....They do pale in comparison as far as how deep they can play loudly and clean, I don't need numbers to hear that but again with our musical ears....I wasn't born until '72 but every old speaker I've come across without exception farts out before any new one I've had....Look man, I know you know your stuff and I'm not in the mood to argue about it, I've played plenty of newer SVT rigs and yes they do sound good but not "all that". I've also heard a couple old ones and they are "all that", amp distortion, speaker distortion and all. I wouldn't mind seeing a freq. sweep of an old SVT just to see what my ears are telling me, never know, I just might learn something.

 

[jarrod cunningham]

ok , the main thing i wanted to know is will the jensen mods sound as good as the ones in my classic 810 that arent busted ? second , will i get a better tone or more volume running lower powered speakers since im only using 200 watts tube head ? all of the rest of this isnt what i care about . i really need someone who uses these speakers to say : i use them , i like them , they sound as good as the originals , they have plenty of low end and also good clarity , they are really good speakers no matter what the price .... they sound like the cts or just say i really like em . i dont want to make a 250 dollar mistake . also , i dont want to spend the same money on 4 if i can get 8 and have the same outcome . i just need a good sounding cab with good speakers in it ....

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

By an "engineers" point of view I mean the "lower, louder and cleaner is always better" school of thought,

..and you're missing the point that the old SVT speakers ARE lower, louder, and cleaner.

every old speaker I've come across without exception farts out before any new one I've had

That's your experience, which or may not be relevant, but instead of factually examining it, you're just assuming it to be universal and that Bill is right because every old speaker you've played farts out, nevermind you didn't mention the condition of the old speakers, what was driving them, or what cab they were in, all of which make a huge difference in their performance.

I wouldn't mind seeing a freq. sweep of an old SVT just to see what my ears are telling me, never know, I just might learn something.

I didn't post a graph, just numbers. Look for posts on old SVT speakers from both myself and "Rickenbacherman."

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

ok , the main thing i wanted to know is will the jensen mods sound as good as the ones in my classic 810 that arent busted ? second , will i get a better tone or more volume running lower powered speakers since im only using 200 watts tube head ? all of the rest of this isnt what i care about . i really need someone who uses these speakers to say : i use them , i like them , they sound as good as the originals , they have plenty of low end and also good clarity , they are really good speakers no matter what the price .... they sound like the cts or just say i really like em . i dont want to make a 250 dollar mistake . also , i dont want to spend the same money on 4 if i can get 8 and have the same outcome . i just need a good sounding cab with good speakers in it ....

Ummm....

 

[will33]

..and you're missing the point that the old SVT speakers ARE lower, louder, and cleaner.

Maybe that's why they sound better than the new ones?



That's your experience, which or may not be relevant, but instead of factually examining it, you're just assuming it to be universal and that Bill is right because every old speaker you've played farts out, nevermind you didn't mention the condition of the old speakers, what was driving them, or what cab they were in, all of which make a huge difference in their performance.

Good point and yes, I'm sure the 20-30 or more years of aging, gigging and I'm sure in some cases abuse has something to do with that.



I didn't post a graph, just numbers. Look for posts on old SVT speakers from both myself and "Rickenbacherman."

I'll do that, thanks.

Was also looking for the link to post to okabass's project, you beat me to it. To the OP, SVT's are about the most popular rig here so I'm sure plenty of people have real world experience with the mod50 replacements, bump the thread so people see it tomorrow while they're screwing off at work.

 

[will33]

PSG, are the fs and displacement numbers bill quoted earlier in the thread accurate? If so, they shouldn't sound like the originals "on paper". Real world experience would still prevail here.

 

[svtb15]

This may be weird.. but my Old 71-ish SVT cab with supposed guitar speakers sounds deeper and fuller than my old custom BagEnd 2x15 JBL E-140 cab....

 

[will33]

This may be weird.. but my Old 71-ish SVT cab with supposed guitar speakers sounds deeper and fuller than my old custom BagEnd 2x15 JBL E-140 cab....

That may have something to do with this....

By PSG. ..and you're missing the point that the old SVT speakers ARE lower, louder, and cleaner.

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

PSG, are the fs and displacement numbers bill quoted earlier in the thread accurate?

No. They are very biased "guesstimations."

If so, they shouldn't sound like the originals "on paper".

If you'll note, I said they shouldn't earlier in this thread, but that okabass was using them and he would have a firsthand view.

Regarding the comparison to the Bag End speakers, it's funny because when I ran my response tests, I used my Bag End D12E's with their processor as a reference against the SVT cab. They sounded VERY similar overall. The SVT cab rolled off earlier, around 35Hz, but in the 4-string bass guitar region, the only difference was volume; the SVT cab was much louder.

 

[will33]

No. They are very biased "guesstimations."



If you'll note, I said they shouldn't earlier in this thread, but that okabass was using them and he would have a firsthand view.

Regarding the comparison to the Bag End speakers, it's funny because when I ran my response tests, I used my Bag End D12E's with their processor as a reference against the SVT cab. They sounded VERY similar overall. The SVT cab rolled off earlier, around 35Hz, but in the 4-string bass guitar region, the only difference was volume; the SVT cab was much louder.

Thanks. If I was an ampeg nut (not that there's anything wrong with that) I'd be diving down another rabbit hole... and yeah 35hz has nothing to do with a 4-string bass, or even a 5 for all practical purposes.

 

[svtb15]

Years ago i ran both the SVT and the bagend 2x15 side by side with a BGW amp.. many years ago..
Somehow i remember the SVT seemed to be bassier up close.. perhaps i was deceived by the mids of the JBLs in the bagend cab.. that could be it... I have only seen one other 2x15 bagend cab besides mine..... it was the ported one D15B-D.
The two together moved allot of air..
I still have the SVT cab.. but i never use it anymore...

 

[billfitzmaurice]

..and you're missing the point that the old SVT speakers ARE lower, louder, and cleaner.

To put this ball back into the appropriate court: Prove it. Show us an FRD and measured specs for your 1969 vintage SVT drivers. If you have the expertise required to make the claims you make for these drivers then you obviously have the resources to measure both the cabs and the driver specs.
Anticipated retort: "I don't have to measure them, I know what I hear".

ok , the main thing i wanted to know is will the jensen mods sound as good as the ones in my classic 810 that arent busted ?

That depends on the vintage of what's in there. If they're CTS or first generation Eminence, probably. If they're later Eminence the Mods won't have as much low end, but they will have more top end.