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JJ Burnel bass sound

L

Lobotomy

Aug 2, 2006
10
0
35
USA
#1
Anyone know what amp settings are good to get a sound like JJ?
I know he used a guitar amp with a blown speaker, but is there a way to get a similar sound with a bass amp?
Here's some examples of what I'm talking about: Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
 
#5
Lobotomy said:
Anyone know what amp settings are good to get a sound like JJ?
I know he used a guitar amp with a blown speaker, but is there a way to get a similar sound with a bass amp?
Here's some examples of what I'm talking about: Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

They played a lot locally and many of my friends were musicians at the same time - the big thing somebody mentioned to me who knew him, was that J-J played a P-Bass with very low action, so a lot of what you are hearing is distorted string noise etc. - but used in a controlled manner! :)
 
#8
hi,
in fact it seems like everybody thinks you need a lot of distortion to get the jj sound, but no. I tried a few things, and what really works it to get the right frequencies to distort before the others. JJ used a hiwatt guitar amp in the early days : this had 2 essential features :
1. tubes
2. guitar amp high-pass filter in the preamp stage

Result: low frequencies are rolled off right in the premap stage, so the midrange is the frequency range being distorted before the others, especially with a p-bass having more midrange than treble. All this supported by enough still undistorted bass frequencies, that make for a robust muscular tone.

So, the midrange is being overdriven by the preamp stage, thereby generating overdrive type of distortion adding harmonically rich treble range (it wouldn't work with say a j-bass that has more treble in the signal, or any other 'hifi' bass having lots of treble right out of the pickup : that would lead to a hissy overly trebly tone). And the speakers that seem to work best are 15'', with that throaty midrange voicing.

Nuff said - if u're tired of my technical blablabla, here's what you need :

- A decent P-bass
- One Powerful valve amp (I got an Orange AD200B mk3)
- A preamp with "the right bass rolloff setting". Key is to hit the amp's preamp with this rolled-off low frequencies. Don't dial too much gain in, just enough to get that midrange peak overdriven and turn up loud.
- A nice big old school 2x15''
...there you go with that awesome viciously growling testosterone soaked Fender Precision tone ;o) Try the intro to hanging around - spot on !

Cheers then, and have fun !
Zak

PS:
1. JJ the man himself says that Rotosound strings, a pick and the way he hits the strings are essential ingredients of this tone. I can agree on the hitting strings part and the pick. But about the strings I'm more perplex, for me what works best are bright flats. yes yes :o)
2. some of the Tech 21 VT bass pedal settings also approaches this tone, with not too much drive setting but high character (which, then again, is pushing midrange)
 
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#9
PastorofMuppets said:
the mix on that video was terrible
there is no way that guy wanted to be that over the guitar

i think that tone sucks imo
Click to expand...

Well that is a helpful post! Keep up the good work.:eyebrow:

JJ Burnel originally had a white P-bass with a rosewood neck that he painted to look like Antigua-burst using green spraypaint. He is iconic for using a black P-bass with a maple neck, but the classic Stranglers stuff was recorded using his 'beater' bass with a rosewood neck.

I think he used a Hiwatt head and a Hiwatt 412 or 810 cab with blown speakers. Not much else really.
 
#10
yeah, the blown speakers story :smug: . Sure enough but I'm not that convinced this one being mandatory for getting that sound. Reason being with my setup I get really damn close to that JJ sound whenever I need it or feel like it. And there are no blown speakers, just a healthy pair of 15'' in a Peavey cab, with a neo eminence on top and the old peavey in the bottom.
And it's a 1975 fender usa p-bass with maple neck and Labella bright flats, going through an avalon U5 with bass rolloff setting n°5 (but I guess any preamp with bass rolloff would do just as fine) and then into an Orange AD200B mk3 amp with gain at 9,5-10 o'clock and volume no higher than 10 o'clock eihter ...and that goes damn loud already.

What makes me so sure about it is that if I don't use the bass rolloff preamp setting before the amp - and rolloff the bass on the amp instead - well I don't get the same result at all.

So me is convinced that it must be that bass rolloff thang in the preamp stage being key here. And the same setting with another bass is interesting too, but does not hit taht p-bass sweet spot ;o) Leo Fender got that soooooooo right !

Cheerz, Zak
 
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#11
JJ is known for using P-basses, it's true, but he also used Steinbergers - which sound nothing like a P-bass in any way - and still sounded unmistakeably like JJ.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say RotoSounds (or any mid-heavy roundwound) and digging in hard near the bridge with a pick and dialing a lot of mids in at the amp will get you there - or close to there - without having to go out and buy a "JJ-approved" black P-bass.
 
#12
The blown speakers stuff is of legend. From personal experience, blown speakers tend to produce little or no noise, not a consistent overdriven tone. I don't see a bass cab, that gets chucked into the back of a van after ever gig, kicked up and down stairs at venues, maintaining a certain grinding tone for long.
 
#13
JJ used some different basses :
A WAL on Bear Cage and most of Gospel Meninblack album, perhaps some of Raven, very nice tone yet different from that typical p-bass growl.
Then the Yamaha BB for Feline and some of Folie if I'm not mistaken, with flatwounds : very nice tone too, hand of steel in a suede glove, but still not that p-bass growl.
After that he used the Steinberger, true. But I still don't get this one : that tone was really nothing like the p-bass ...just listen to the live recordings of that era, that bass is just going flubbyflubbyflubby and totally buried. All the songs just sound a bit lifeless. Steinberger is DEFINITELY NEVER going to give you that p-bass growl...
And them Rotosound strings are not very heavy in the equation either, imho.

Besides that, I find the Shuker he's been using for a few years now not that great. I've been comparing p-basses, and there's nothing like a nice vintage pre-76/77 usa made p-bass. The after 77 ones are not too bad but heavier and less resonant, treblier and not as throaty. Somewhat muffled mid-bass. There's definitely something with the pre-77 p-basses wood that makes the difference.

Cheerz, Zak
 
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#14
Lo-E said:
JJ is known for using P-basses, it's true, but he also used Steinbergers - which sound nothing like a P-bass in any way - and still sounded unmistakeably like JJ.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say RotoSounds (or any mid-heavy roundwound) and digging in hard near the bridge with a pick and dialing a lot of mids in at the amp will get you there - or close to there - without having to go out and buy a "JJ-approved" black P-bass.
Click to expand...

That's precisely where many go wrong : just adding mids on the amp will not get you there ! It has been the point for a few bass players (John Entwistle for instance) to run their bass through a bass amp + an overdriven guitar amp : in this way they got relatively clean and solid bass together with an overdriven upper frequency range. That particular mix gives you nasty aggression yet powerful bass. Since then, a great number of pedals give the possibility to mix dry with distorted signal and in theory it should achieve the same result. But theory is theory, and I've been trying many alternatives including several pedals, double amplification.... And what works best is to have the bass signal bass frequencies rolled off the right way before hitting your amp's preamp section, and add enough gain (best if a serious valve amp) to get the mids overdriven and dig the strings of the fender p-bass. More or less near the bridge will just give you more or less tightness.
 
#15
ah yes...


I saw them in spring, 1981, just as they were starting to go in a more synthy direction. JJ was still playing the black P, but had ditched the Hiwatt head/Marshall cab rig. In its place was a preamp/power amp set up, Ashley & Crown, I think, but I'm not 100% sure. Those ran a small pile of Bag End-style cabs with single 12's and 15's. Still sounded like JJ.
 
#16
well 1981 was the Feline era, and JJ was playing a black Yamaha BB that features less of a rude'n'aggressive tone. Still nice and all, but not that vicious frenzy grizzly bear roar. That man used to be an amazing bass player, too bad he lost some of his mojo....
 

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