John Myung (merged)

[MacheteJames]

I saw Dream Theater for the first time at The Orpheum in Boston, last Thursday. Here are my thoughts, in no real order.
Bear in mind that I'm not really a DT fan, I like them, but I don't own any DT albums, though I have heard a lot of their stuff.

-while the bass tone on the new album sounds great, you couldn't hear a damn thing Myung was playing live. Petrucci's scooped guitar tone and Portnoy's excessive drum set leave him little sonic space.

-I'm not sure if the problem is with the sound guy, or if Myung doesn't know how to use an EQ, but the scooped tone he's using (you could tell it was scooped, during the few ballads that DT played) doesn't work. Do you think he's aware of the fact that he can't be heard?

-Why didn't he get a solo???? Everyone in the band did except him. The guy can sure as hell play, but he's just wasted in this context.

-every song seemed to fall apart when Petrucci went to solo, because there is no rhythm guitar and the bass is inaudible. This really killed a lot of the enjoyment for me.

-Petrucci, while a fantastic player technically, leaves me cold with his playing. There's no soul in it.

-I really liked Jordan Rudess's keyboard playing. He's almost like a second guitar in the band, but with far more versatility.

-Where is the groove? This band has no groove. With the lack of bass (live, at least), and so much overplaying going on, it's almost like this band manages to sabotage itself with it's monstrous, virtuosic level of technique. The concept of "playing what the song requires" is totally absent.

 

[hateater]

I saw Dream Theater for the first time at The Orpheum in Boston, last Thursday. Here are my thoughts, in no real order.
Bear in mind that I'm not really a DT fan, I like them, but I don't own any DT albums, though I have heard a lot of their stuff.

-while the bass tone on the new album sounds great, you couldn't hear a damn thing Myung was playing live. Petrucci's scooped guitar tone and Portnoy's excessive drum set leave him little sonic space.

Agreed.

-I'm not sure if the problem is with the sound guy, or if Myung doesn't know how to use an EQ, but the scooped tone he's using (you could tell it was scooped, during the few ballads that DT played) doesn't work. Do you think he's aware of the fact that he can't be heard?

Agreed again. However, I blame the sound guy, not him. Also, you have to take in account that the average rock fan would rather hear loud distorted shredding and excessive double bass drumming than a nice clean bass riff.

-Why didn't he get a solo???? Everyone in the band did except him. The guy can sure as hell play, but he's just wasted in this context.

HE has a few small solos in songs. I really dont get why he doesn't have any pure solo spots. I own his video, and he is a great bassist who has some great songs written just for bass.

-every song seemed to fall apart when Petrucci went to solo, because there is no rhythm guitar and the bass is inaudible. This really killed a lot of the enjoyment for me.

-Petrucci, while a fantastic player technically, leaves me cold with his playing. There's no soul in it.

I will respectfully disagree about Petrucci having no soul with his solos. The more you listen, the more you appreciate them. However, I do agree about the fact that live, it is pretty much the drums and keyboards for rhythm, which isn't such a great combination for a rock band rhythm section. Also, when I saw them, the keys were louder than anything else, it may have been different for you.

-I really liked Jordan Rudess's keyboard playing. He's almost like a second guitar in the band, but with far more versatility.

He is an amazing player, as were the two keys players before him.

-Where is the groove? This band has no groove. With the lack of bass (live, at least), and so much overplaying going on, it's almost like this band manages to sabotage itself with it's monstrous, virtuosic level of technique. The concept of "playing what the song requires" is totally absent.

I don't mean to be rude, but do you listen to much prog. rock?

 

[hateater]

My condolences, man, seriously...

You have no clue how bummed I was, and how angry my friend (who also had a ticket) was. We had pretty damn good seats.

 

[MacheteJames]

him.


I don't mean to be rude, but do you listen to much prog. rock?

Not really... I tend to fall more toward the jazz/fusion side when it comes to listening to music that "pushes the envelope", so to speak.

 

[Indigo]

Someone was talking about the John Myung signature Yamaha. I remember I was stoked about that one coming out. Then I got to try it at the store, and it really wasn´t my cup of tea, unfortunately.

One thing about this bass though, that confused me, was that the really nice inlays middle was on the 13th fret. This really confused me. And then, if you look at pictures on John Myung with his signature bass, the middle of the inlay is on the 12th fret. Anyone know something about this? I think it´s weird, anyway. Some sort of way to separate the real John Myung from the fakes, or what...?

 

[hateater]

Not really... I tend to fall more toward the jazz/fusion side when it comes to listening to music that "pushes the envelope", so to speak.

I agree with you to some extent. the reason I asked if you listen to a lot of Progressive Rock is because a lot of it lacks 'soul'. Progressive can be defined a thousand different ways, but most progressive bands these days are very technical when it comes to writing songs.

Just for refrence, let me list some progressive bands for you to check out (if you haven't already). King Crimson, Yes, Rush (maybe?), Queensryche, Kings X, Symphony X and Stratovarious (sp?).

Perhaps you would like one of them a whole lot more than DT.

 

[macool]

This is a littled off of the subject, but I watched that video and saw that Portnoy had 3 bass drums. What is that all about and how would it work? Is the third one just there to hold up more cymbols?

 

[Indigo]

That kit is called the "Siamese Monster", and as you see in this pic...

Invalid Link Removed

...it is practically two kits in one, so I guess he uses the right one (from his point of view) when the songs are more 'soft' or something...

I love this kind of stuff...=)

So, does anyone have any input on that inlay thing I asked about before...?

 

[hateater]

This is a littled off of the subject, but I watched that video and saw that Portnoy had 3 bass drums. What is that all about and how would it work? Is the third one just there to hold up more cymbols?

I believe he had it made just for the FAtes Warning/Queensryche/DT tour. For the encore, both Mike and the drummer from Queensryche (the name escapes me) sat on his "siamese monster" kit and played along to "Comfortably numb" and "We won't get fooled again".

When I saw him play the kit on his own, I don't recall seeing him get up to shift to the other side of it. Also, most large kits support the cymbols with a sort of stand that is bar like. I am not a durmmer, so I dont know the name of it.

 

[macool]

Also, most large kits support the cymbols with a sort of stand that is bar like. I am not a durmmer, so I dont know the name of it.

I guess that answers my question. I bet it was pretty cool with two drummers on one song. I think they call it a rack.

 

[hateater]

I guess that answers my question. I bet it was pretty cool with two drummers on one song. I think they call it a rack.

The best part was the drum solo with mike and the other dude hitting the same toms and cymbols at the same time- that must have taken a lot of practice. I saw the DVD "Standing in the Shadows of Motown", and apparently, there were up to three drummers playing on some of those old hits at the same time.

 

[macool]

I saw the DVD "Standing in the Shadows of Motown",

Have you ever seen his "Liquid Drum Theater" DVD? It is absolutely amazing. Even as a bass player I found it really fascinating. Its two discs. One is him with Liquid Tension Experiment stuff and the other is with Dream Theater stuff.

 

[Darren R]

I have the DVD of Live Scenes from New York, and I'm pretty sure he plays the solo in The Dance of Eternity with 4 fingers. They are like spider's legs flailing away at the strings!

BTW if you want to hear him better, get Falling Into Infinity. It might not be DT's best album, but he can be heard quite well on most tracks there (and he is brilliant).

John has said before that he uses 3 fingers on his right hand. Also, from watching the DVD you can see that he's still using 3 fingers.

And yes, Falling into Infinity has some awesome grooving basslines, something I wish the band would go back to, not this trying to be as metal as we can, ripoff other artists in the process, which they seem to be getting at lately, IMO. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan but I wouldn't mind them going in another direction for their next album, something more groove based and less heavy, perhaps.

Cheers.

 

[Darren R]

...it is practically two kits in one, so I guess he uses the right one (from his point of view) when the songs are more 'soft' or something...

The smaller kit is also tuned differently than the left side, I believe. This allows him to get different sounds that he needs for certain songs. I personally see it as a bit too much, but if he needs it, let him use it. It's nothing compared to all the stuff that Terry Bozzio has...

haha...

Cheers

 

[rodoherty1]

Hi Guys,

I've been a DT fan for about 9 years now and I have spent many-an-hour playing along with some of their tunes. I found "Scenes" to be particularly rewarding although I could never get my ears or fingers around "Dance of Eternity".

I bought new latest CD a few months ago and I have to say that I'm pissed off with the total lack of groove that John displays. Usual observations still apply ... what amazing chops!! But, I'm convinced at this stage that John has never listened to a funky tune in his entire life. Every note is pre-learned and, although DT tunes give very little room to maneuver, there are plenty of spots where John to loosen his playing up a bit.

Anyway, I reckon I'm a bit like John in that I got caught up with the technical side of playing until this year and then I discovered the magic of Flea !!! Yep, I'm only discovering Flea now and it is so much more fun than I gave the Peppers credit for. I honestly believe Flea will do more for my playing than DT ever could.

Anyway, does anyone else wish that John would back away from the technique and prove to us that he can relax and improvise a groove?

Just a few frustrated thoughts ...

Rob.

 

[Z-Bass]

Saw this thread back up and thought I would add my thoughts. I've seen Dream Theater only 3 times so far, once long ago when they were touring under Images & Words and twice more recently within the past year or so. I remember the Images & Words show being awesome - great playing and a surprisingly good mix despite the venue known for it's crappy sounding room. Recently however, not the same. I agree with others not being able to hear Myung. The 2nd show for me wasn't bad but he was rather low in the mix. The 3rd time was just frustrating, I could not hear him at all, even during his solo breakdowns - very thin. It has to be the house mix, I know if that were me and couldn't hear myself that I would be doing something about it. I walked around the venue thinking maybe I was in a dead spot but despite where I stood, nothing.

I recently watched some of my friends copy of their latest live DVD and his tone is killin' - powerful and up in the mix.

Regarding his bass, anybody else notice that he's added a second pickup? It looks like he's added a soapbar pickup between the bridge and humbucker.

Regarding his tone on the last CD, I happen to like, it's very powerful and thick. I guess his playing has become more minimalistic when compared to their earlier efforts. He still lets it rip at times just not as much.

 

[Ian Perge]

But, I'm convinced at this stage that John has never listened to a funky tune in his entire life. Every note is pre-learned and, although DT tunes give very little room to maneuver, there are plenty of spots where John to loosen his playing up a bit...

John has be quoted in interviews that he admires, listens to, and practices to Jamerson-era Motown tunes, and that Tony Levin "is the king", but in the chops-heavy band that DT has developed into it's simply doesn't suit the music. (Not that they weren't fairly strong in the "early days", but Rudess' entry into the band has pushed them farther into the "notes for notes sake" area of music than ever before.)

I think that when your band's music is so metronomic and planned-out, and when the drummer has no concept of playing as a rhythm section (Portnoy has admitted that in DT he plays off of John Petrucci much more than Myung - a shame, seeing what he can do in his less-intense side-projects) you have no choice but to play as "tight" as JM does. One person cannot make a groove, no matter how hard he might try. Which leads me to...

Anyway, does anyone else wish that John would back away from the technique and prove to us that he can relax and improvise a groove?

He can, and he has: his "Platypus" and "The Jelly Jam" side projects with former keyboardist Derek Sherinian in Platypus, and guitarist Ty Tabor of King's X and drummer Rod Morgenstein of The Dregs/Winger. Much looser tunes, and JM lays back with the best of them.

I guess his playing has become more minimalistic when compared to their earlier efforts. He still lets it rip at times just not as much.

I wouldn't call anything DT does "minimalistic", but that's one thing I've noticed lacking in their last 3 studio releases. JM used to play many more counterpoint lines against both the guitar and keyboard, and now simply doubles the guitar 90% of the time (granted, not an easy thing to do with Petrucci) - I prefer the interplay of "the old days", but things change.

 

[Lackey]

Yeah, his live sound sucks, but I'm betting yours would as well if you had to compete with a kit that contained 20 drums and 15 cymbals (not counting percussion, mind you) as well as Petrucci's Mesa overkill. For better or worse, DT is sonically a guitar and drums dominated band. I'd like to know who Myung bribed to be so up-front on "Train of Thought"?

Not logical. Portnoy can only hit 4 things at once, so it really doesn't matter how much drum gear he has on stage. Look at Peart's kit, and you can still hear Geddy!

Portnoy needs to realize he's not that great, and turn the dang mix down. I agree that Myung needs to shake out of his collectivist background culture and demand more volume.

 

[MacheteJames]

Not logical. Portnoy can only hit 4 things at once, so it really doesn't matter how much drum gear he has on stage. Look at Peart's kit, and you can still hear Geddy!

Portnoy needs to realize he's not that great, and turn the dang mix down. I agree that Myung needs to shake out of his collectivist background culture and demand more volume.

I'm not sure if that little comment is really necessary man, the guy is an American. As for the mix, he could probably notch himself a spot in the mix where he could be heard, but if the sound guy doesn't follow through with it, it's all for nothing.

 

[Ian Perge]

Not logical. Portnoy can only hit 4 things at once, so it really doesn't matter how much drum gear he has on stage. Look at Peart's kit, and you can still hear Geddy!

It's not a matter simply of what Portnoy's hitting at any one time, but how many mics, soundboard inputs, and general "sonic space" the drums take up in DT, which is huge. Comparing them to Rush both in sonics, which is as well large but not in the "heavy metal downtuned guitars and consistant double kick" way, as well as the bassist's role (Geddy is much more the upfront bassist - always has been, always will) is what isn't logical.

I agree that Myung needs to shake out of his collectivist background culture and demand more volume.

I wasn't aware that Chicago (his birthplace) and Long Island, NY (where he grew up) were hotbeds of socialistic activity.