John Paul Jones and Acoustic 360

[CrUiSeR]

I'm looking at gearing up for a Zeppelin tribute band and as such would like to get JPJ's exact tone.

You would have to steal his soul.

+1 I guess with a 'tribute band', it's a lot about the look though.

I saw a R Stones tribute back in 90, the lead singer looked and
sounded almost exactly like Mick.
I once saw a guy that looked liked F Mercury; that was scary in more ways than one!! This was after he had passed.

 

[seamonkey]

From what I hear on Youtube versus the albums the sound is entirely different (at times he plays a bass). I much prefer the album sound but that's just me. If you look at the concert PA's of the day they were pretty crappy, so even sitting in the audience I imaging the sound was questionable.

I have to mention that there are modelers that recreate the 360 sound. Somewhere there's an analog, but there also several software ones. Line 6 Pod Farm has it and a 15 trial. You could try the modeler to get a feel for how it sounds while shopping for a hardware amp and cabinet to recreate the sound. At least you'll know what sound to look for.

 

[seamonkey]

Real USA Acoustic 360 reissues are coming in the next couple of months I believe.

Nearly every time in the last few years I've heard about this, the release is always 6 months off.

Also, last I hear is they are not a reissue but a "new" design and the price will be in the $6000.00 range!

 

[jastacey]

I was looking at an old Ampeg owners manual for a V4B ( you can see this at the Ampeg V-4.com site ) and in the settings section, they have a setting for a V4B, so it sounds like a Acoustic 360 .....

 

[rbonner]

+1 .... Live probly 1/3, but overall about 1/8 !!! hows that for rubbish NUMBERS!!! ;-)

I too have been to a couple Led Zeppelin concerts, and one Page and Plant. I wasn't paying that sort of attention back then, either. Part of it was my great seats in huge venues watching tiny mouse people on stage. He might have been playing a tuba for all I knew. My tickets for page and plant were won from the local SF radio station and we drove to MSP to Target center and sat in nosebleed... I had to be resuscitated and put on oxygen due to hypoxia. The acoustics were so bad you could hardly tell what songs they were playing.

We finally moved down several decks... Security climbed all over us, but escorting the BIG BOOBED BLONDE got us empty seats once we explained what was going on. Probably should have gotten us back stage, well her anyway, but what good is that?

I watched the movie again the other night on Direct TV since seeing it at midnight in the theater back when it came out in what 76? I used to like to see those documentary band movies; they were usually fun times and saw it again a few years ago and that time I was paying attention.

Anyway, sit there through three hours of the movie and see how many times he picks up the BASS....

Now I realize the movie was made over the TOUR and maybe different nights had him doing different things.

Maybe the movie editors PREFERRED HIM on the KEYBOARDS when showing the band. They pretty much played the whole set list over the course of the movie. But maybe they didn't and it just seemed like it because the movie was so long with commercials. Then make your own determination.

1/3, 1/8, 69/122 nd's I really don't care, split hairs, but don't hurt yourself. Most of their HUGE SONGS the guy was sitting on the bench.

I'm more impressed with Geddy Lee and standing up, playing Bass, Keyboards with the bass lines on the peddals all on the same song, never saw JPJ do that.

Good morning everybody.

BOB

 

[Buster Brown]

Well, I think in hindsight, we, at some point, are ALL correct. I think the keyboard sort of evolved throughout the time of the band (if memory serves). I will state categorically, and for the record, that the one time I saw them when I was completely paying attention, and not busy passing certain contraban items about, in a 2 hour (more or less) show he actually SAT down 3 times....and that was in 1972....

As to the new USA Acoustic. There have been rumors and rumors of rumors about the new "USA Acoustic". I have spoken at length with the President of the new company (aprox 4 months ago) and, at that time was offered an endorsement deal with the new 360. He claimed that it was a couple of months away from production (then) and haven't seen much mentioned since then.

I know for a fact that there are a couple of cabs in the offing - a 2X10 and a 4X10:

and the 2X10 looks basically the same, but, obviously, smaller. Will they be available anytime soon? I have no idea, but I certainly hope so.

As to the pricing on the 360...I have no idea, but I DO know this....it WILL NOT be cheap!

 

[greenboy]

Could just check out the big DVD set from a couple years back.

 

[rbonner]

I always did like the look of an Acoustic amp. Even like the looks of the new B600/B810 setup. Fit and finish isn't stellar, but they still look nice. The colors were classy and original. Of course Peavey sort of copied the aluminum trim thing, but I always liked the Big Blue... OK so the guys who actually own 360/361 setups, how many cabs can be driven by one preamp head?

BOB

 

[bl2112]

How about getting that line 6 amp that models the other classic amps? Read that Will Lee has one and said that it sounded really good.

 

[jastacey]

I believe the preamp had 4 outputs ...can't remember.....it's been 25 years since I've seen that amp.

 

[greenboy]

I use the Acoustic 360 model on my V-Bass at times, but usually route some virtual DI in there too to get a little more definition. Before I was a bassplayer I played in bands with guys that had 'em so I have a pretty good idea what I'm hearing.

 

[chadds]

Had a 360 and interestingly like some hifi gear now, it could sound like whatever you put through it. Did Jaco sound like JPJ? Nope.
I saw him with those 2x15 trapezoid Rickenbacker cabs and he sounded like the record. They made the Who sound like a tired string quartet. (I love the Who!).
So *&^% a bunch of Acoustic 360s. He was experienced enough of a bassist to get his sound no matter what.
Get your sound. For looks get whatever you need.

 

[greenboy]

chadds,

I see you through 150-year old stained glass. And I must say you don't look much like June Cleaver. Nevertheless, I don't recommend that optometrists all start raiding old churches ; }

 

[Jim C]

I'm willing to be that JPJ could get his old Zep sound on many of the new amps with a brand new J bass. Too easy to become a gear queer; it's all about the player.

+1 to the notion that the old amps have a great, powerful, unique sound
I have a super clean 370 that is a museum piece; it looks very cool but doesn't offer anything different / better than a modern day amp

+1 to the fact that the recorded bass was most probably not at all from his amp

 

[bucephylus]

I played a 360 for many years and just sold it about 4 years ago when we downsized our cars.

I have a decidedly different opinion from Ken and others about the tone.

For modern slap sounds, of course, the folded horn design does not produce the compressed/bright tone most guys are looking for.

However, for a pizz player using Fender single coils in a J, that enclosure is THE tone. And I NEVER heard any mud in it, presuming mud refers to distortion. Rather, that cab produces a cavernous clanky clear sound that is highly supported in the lower mids; perfect for the Jazz bass. Total synergy. Now, I will admit that solo in the music store, that tone can be "ugly." However, it is the tone supreme in a mix. Just another example of the misleading differences between auditioning an amp solo and getting it in the mix.

Some other things from my experience:
I never observed any influence of the cab vibrations on either the power section or the pre on top. They were built like tanks except for the infernal rocker switches.

Another thing towards the more modern tones: the amp had a biamp capability built in. I would periodically put my Flite 4x8 into the high end biamp out, and that produced an extremely versatile tone that could be used easily for the Marcus thing. Reason I mention this is almost no players ever took advantage of it, and most still don't realize that capability is there.

Finally, the more typical criticism of this rig was that the volume did not develop until about 30 feet in front of the stage; so, the player either couldn't hear themselves or was too loud. Well, I never experienced anything of the sort like that. I used to use that amp for everything from Holiday Inn band in the corner on up; never with any issues.

So, I will dissent; for my purposes, this was my favorite piece of gear built for bass to date, aside from the weight/size issues.

To the OP, if you can find one, can afford it, and have resources to move it around; then get it. There is no other amp currently produced that gets even close to the tone the 360 produces. I currently switch between 2 Tech 2x12's and an NV610, depending on the gig. They are both nice toneful setups. But, they ain't the 360.

IMO/IME

 

[D.M.N.]

I'm a big JPJ fan, and what I find interesting is the difference between his live and studio tone. His studio tone on Zeppelin I&II are fantastic, both warm and gritty at times, but his live tone on the BBC sessions is incredible. Not flubby or muddy, just crazy grit and definition. And on the entire BBC sessions, he plays keys maybe five times........but that was their earlier stuff, which didn't feature the kys as much.

 

[Buster Brown]

I played a 360 for many years and just sold it about 4 years ago when we downsized our cars.

I have a decidedly different opinion from Ken and others about the tone.

For modern slap sounds, of course, the folded horn design does not produce the compressed/bright tone most guys are looking for.

However, for a pizz player using Fender single coils in a J, that enclosure is THE tone. And I NEVER heard any mud in it, presuming mud refers to distortion. Rather, that cab produces a cavernous clanky clear sound that is highly supported in the lower mids; perfect for the Jazz bass. Total synergy. Now, I will admit that solo in the music store, that tone can be "ugly." However, it is the tone supreme in a mix. Just another example of the misleading differences between auditioning an amp solo and getting it in the mix.

Some other things from my experience:
I never observed any influence of the cab vibrations on either the power section or the pre on top. They were built like tanks except for the infernal rocker switches.

Another thing towards the more modern tones: the amp had a biamp capability built in. I would periodically put my Flite 4x8 into the high end biamp out, and that produced an extremely versatile tone that could be used easily for the Marcus thing. Reason I mention this is almost no players ever took advantage of it, and most still don't realize that capability is there.

Finally, the more typical criticism of this rig was that the volume did not develop until about 30 feet in front of the stage; so, the player either couldn't hear themselves or was too loud. Well, I never experienced anything of the sort like that. I used to use that amp for everything from Holiday Inn band in the corner on up; never with any issues.

So, I will dissent; for my purposes, this was my favorite piece of gear built for bass to date, aside from the weight/size issues.

To the OP, if you can find one, can afford it, and have resources to move it around; then get it. There is no other amp currently produced that gets even close to the tone the 360 produces. I currently switch between 2 Tech 2x12's and an NV610, depending on the gig. They are both nice toneful setups. But, they ain't the 360.

IMO/IME

You know, I read and re-read your reply and think you have hit the nail on the proverbial head....

Look, for a lot of us "old farts" who played "way back when", we understand. Unfortunately, most amps are not built the way they were back in the late 60s - 70s and so on. Most would contend that todays amps are a world better and, for the most part, I would agree. However, as I stated in earlier posts, I recently grabbed a 370 (helluva price) and plugged her in to my SVT6X10HLF. The very FIRST thing that literally jumped out at me was the sheer VOLUME at 2 or 3....the same volume would be at 6 or maybe 7 on my SVT4Pro....

I guess that UL is the culprit here, but nonetheless, wattage, as they say, ain't what it used to be! But, I'm having one helluva good time walking down memory lane every time I power the 370 up.

YMMV.........

 

[afireinside]

the Allen Park Michigan Guitar Center had a 1x 18" cab from the 70's it was powered call em up

 

[rbonner]

The last five posts have been some really good stuff. We are talking about a serious professional classically trained musician who was a total leader in innovation and style.

I do think he could get his tone out of anything, but think about this they were a live band in an era that didn't include 100,000 watt FOH systems. These guys are/were four of the best of the best and of course their success has shown us repeatedly they are in fact the best.

Anyway, I don't have much more to add.

Who's JPJ anyways?

BOB

 

[Jim C]

Have to admit that I know very little about the dynamics of the cabinet but don't think that we have heard a recording of JPJ through a mic'd cab