John Paul Jones-The Lemon Song

[nicksharpe]

Yes

Oh, come on, now.

Yes

I totally get it. Jaco's rise to fame screwed Miami out of any real bass player for more than a decade. all the 4 stringers wanted to be "Bird on the Bass"-
dont get me wrong, portraits of tracy sent me into the woodshed for life! and getting to watch him play live in the early mid 70s informed my technique which i had the good fortune to work out 6 sets a nite.
nuthin' like paid rehearsal

 

[bucephylus]

I totally get it. Jaco's rise to fame screwed Miami out of any real bass player for more than a decade. all the 4 stringers wanted to be "Bird on the Bass"-
dont get me wrong, portraits of tracy sent me into the woodshed for life! and getting to watch him play live in the early mid 70s informed my technique which i had the good fortune to work out 6 sets a nite.
nuthin' like paid rehearsal

Those were the days.

 

[Bipslapper]

Thanks for reminding me of how soulful a bass line can be. I like the blues, but so many blues bass lines and solos are boring and stiff.

JPJ is definitely a huge reason I was drawn to the bass.

 

[D.M.N.]

In case anyone is interested, here's an early version of The Lemon Song, which I personally think is awesome. But you can hear there's a long way to go between the solos here and on the record.

 

[SasquatchDude]

That's the song that started it all for me... The driving line under the verse, the flying runs under the guitar solo, and the lyrical, grooving breakdown section... somehow, that one voice manages to encompass melody, harmony, and rhythm all at the same time like nothing else I've ever heard.

JPJ is my hero.

 

[consectaneus]

Is The Lemon Song the Jazz with flats sound?

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Is The Lemon Song the Jazz with flats sound?

I thought JPJ used Rotos for his LZ days.

 

[consectaneus]

Well, I probably need not have bumped this thread (but the Lemon Song always deserves a bump). A search cross referencing some terms shows quite a bit of discussion on this topic already.

Anyway, the upshot as I understand it is:
JPJ himself has said he never used flats on Led Zeppelin albums.
The consensus seems to be that he used flats on the first two albums (which includes the Lemon Song). This is assumed from listening to the tone of his bass parts on those albums.

So it's a definite maybe. Or probably.
I don't know if this opinion has changed recently. Anyway, it's one of my favorite bass tones.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Well, I probably need not have bumped this thread (but the Lemon Song always deserves a bump). A search cross referencing some terms shows quite a bit of discussion on this topic already.

Anyway, the upshot as I understand it is:
JPJ himself has said he never used flats on Led Zeppelin albums.
The consensus seems to be that he used flats on the first two albums (which includes the Lemon Song). This is assumed from listening to the tone of his bass parts on those albums.

So it's a definite maybe. Or probably.
I don't know if this opinion has changed recently. Anyway, it's one of my favorite bass tones.

I could see them being flats on the first two records but I would bet they're more likely just really old rounds. Who knows though. One thing Zep was really good at was crafting stuff to appear as a mystery. More mystery = more appeal = more money.

And certainly nothing wrong with a good bump. Here is another!

 

[consectaneus]

I don't know if his articulation gets talked about enough. I think his control over note duration is uncanny--particularly the quick, punchy, staccato octave stuff. The way he locks in with Bonham is one of the iconic sounds in Rock.

I guess the guys here who have transcribed this song could attest to what a workout it must be.

 

[MrLenny1]

Very nice. Thanks for sharing.
Certainly a great bass solo.

 

[grrg63]

Whether he actually used them or not, flats are the easiest way to get to his sound if that's what you're after.

On that live version posted above he almost has a sort of Jack Bruce tone.

 

[ONYX]

I don't know if his articulation gets talked about enough. I think his control over note duration is uncanny--particularly the quick, punchy, staccato octave stuff. The way he locks in with Bonham is one of the iconic sounds in Rock.

I guess the guys here who have transcribed this song could attest to what a workout it must be.

For what it's worth, I've always felt that the entire Led Zeppelin II album was a textbook on "Bass Technique: It's Application and Mastery."

 

[SasquatchDude]

Is The Lemon Song the Jazz with flats sound?

Absolutely.

 

[SasquatchDude]

We've just about beaten the string debate to death over here :

John Paul Jones fan club?

Looks very flat-ish on this screen grab from the '70 Albert Hall show...

I could see them being flats on the first two records but I would bet they're more likely just really old rounds. Who knows though. One thing Zep was really good at was crafting stuff to appear as a mystery. More mystery = more appeal = more money.

And certainly nothing wrong with a good bump. Here is another!

 

[winterburn69]

We've just about beaten the string debate to death over here :

John Paul Jones fan club?

Looks very flat-ish on this screen grab from the '70 Albert Hall show...

View attachment 985772

lol

It's been beaten to death everywhere JPJ's tone comes up. "His tone is so fat, did he use flats?"

And the man himself has given conflicting answers over the years so it's hard to say what he really used.

Just use your ears and use whatever strings give you the JPJ tone you're trying to get.

 

[slagheap]

Same deal with me. I started learning this a handful of times, then just said screw it. Started playing in a zep tribute not that long ago and they really, REALLY want to do this song. That and the fact that I think it's a copout to do it "my way" are the only things that are pushing me to the finish line.

Almost reminds me of quitting smoking. I tried and tried and tried, and then one day it just happened. I should shut up until I'm finished though. Only half way there, and then I have to start getting the rest of the song note for note. Yeesh. Can't promise that though cuz I'm not too sure anyone really cares.

For me the second half was/is tougher - it gets a lot more legato and he plays around with the time. This guy was the first call studio electric bass guy in Britain way before Zepp, and he was a gifted keyboards player from a young age. IIRC he also studied trumpet as a youth.

 

[ricardol]

Apparently, someone managed to boost the volume from the original bass-line recording:

 

[JMacBass65]

Apparently, someone managed to boost the volume from the original bass-line recording:

That ain't him. That's someone who has almost learned the correct notes, but has a LONG way to got on the feel.

 

[grrg63]

Apparently, someone managed to boost the volume from the original bass-line recording:

What a load of BS.