John Paul Jones-The Lemon Song

[Slaphound]

I'm right smack in the middle of learning this solo, note for note, with every intention of getting the whole thing down. While learning it, and while checking out some videos of tribute bands doing it, it occurred to me once more that regardless of how long and hard people want to argue, bass is easier than guitar. Not many bass players seem to want to learn this note for note, and it's understandable, cuz it's a hell of lot of stuff to remember and takes more than a considerable amount of time, commitment and effort. Yet, guitar players often learn countless solos, note for note, without a single complaint coming out of them. What makes learning 60 bars of solo stuff in this any different than a guitarist learning 4 or 5 solos in a few different songs? And guitarists in cover/tribute bands have to know at least 30 plus solos. Note for note they're memorizing a whole lot more notes. We bass players deserve all the disrespect we get! I wouldn't be doing this if I weren't being forced into it.

Consider this post a twisted rant, and much needed break. And my way of convincing myself, "It ain't nothin". I can do it!

Joe. I'm looking for the LIKE button for this post. this is close enough.
I keep going back to this song but every time I start to struggle with the slightest thing, I move away. Today I worked on "Yonder Wall" and "Stumble" from Freddie Kings album, 'My Feeling for the Blues'. Much simpler and simpler is more fun.

 

[Joe Nerve]

I keep going back to this song but every time I start to struggle with the slightest thing, I move away.

Same deal with me. I started learning this a handful of times, then just said screw it. Started playing in a zep tribute not that long ago and they really, REALLY want to do this song. That and the fact that I think it's a copout to do it "my way" are the only things that are pushing me to the finish line.

Almost reminds me of quitting smoking. I tried and tried and tried, and then one day it just happened. I should shut up until I'm finished though. Only half way there, and then I have to start getting the rest of the song note for note. Yeesh. Can't promise that though cuz I'm not too sure anyone really cares.

 

[Darth Handsome]

It's not a cop out just because it's not note for note. Get the feel down & just play. That song isn't meant to be mimicked. There's no way Jonesy himself ever played that song the same way twice anyway.

 

[Zabbo1978]

^This

 

[Joe Nerve]

It's not a cop out just because it's not note for note. Get the feel down & just play. That song isn't meant to be mimicked. There's no way Jonesy himself ever played that song the same way twice anyway.

I completely disagree. Somewhat. I know that JPJ never played it twice the same way, and I understand the idea behind getting the feel, learning the song, and doing it your own way. It's even more fun to do it like that. But I am absolutely certain that zep fans, in an audience, will be WAY happier hearing that solo note for note the way it is on the album. A cover of that song is infinitely more valuable with that solo being played note for note. Most half decent bass players can learn and tackle the tune their own way in a half an hour or less. It takes craploads of work to get it note for note, and the people who grew up on zep love hearing it that way. I played the first three notes for the drummer in another band I play in (a youg dude) and he immediately lit up, knew what I was playing, and started playing along. He and many others that I know can hum every note in the breakdown. I don't feel proof is needed, but yer not going to find many youtube videos that people get excited about with guys or gals playing that tune their own way. People light up and super appreciate the note for note stuff in certain instances, and this is one. I also feel it's one of the best bass exercises I've done in a while. This stuff is very much creeping into my bones and style.

If I were doing this in a regular cover band, or as a cover in an original band I'd more than likely do it my way. In a tribute band I feel it's a total copout to not do it note for note. And we're allowed to disagree on that. But if we were both auditioning for a zep tribute with all else being equal, you did it your way, and I did note for note, I bet I'd get the gig.

 

[Darth Handsome]

I completely disagree. Somewhat. I know that JPJ never played it twice the same way, and I understand the idea behind getting the feel, learning the song, and doing it your own way. It's even more fun to do it like that. But I am absolutely certain that zep fans, in an audience, will be WAY happier hearing that solo note for note the way it is on the album. A cover of that song is infinitely more valuable with that solo being played note for note. Most half decent bass players can learn and tackle the tune their own way in a half an hour or less. It takes craploads of work to get it note for note, and the people who grew up on zep love hearing it that way. I played the first three notes for the drummer in another band I play in (a youg dude) and he immediately lit up, knew what I was playing, and started playing along. He and many others that I know can hum every note in the breakdown. I don't feel proof is needed, but yer not going to find many youtube videos that people get excited about with guys or gals playing that tune their own way. People light up and super appreciate the note for note stuff in certain instances, and this is one. I also feel it's one of the best bass exercises I've done in a while. This stuff is very much creeping into my bones and style.

If I were doing this in a regular cover band, or as a cover in an original band I'd more than likely do it my way. In a tribute band I feel it's a total copout to not do it note for note. And we're allowed to disagree on that. But if we were both auditioning for a zep tribute with all else being equal, you did it your way, and I did note for note, I bet I'd get the gig.

I'd rather hear your way. I've heard Jonesy's way, I have the LP. I'd much rather hear you play from the heart than rehash what he did note for note.

 

[tinman 1967]

Thats one of the greats.... I always loved his little run at 1:19

and then theres the whole big and beautiful bassy goodness that starts at 3:00 into the song. I always got a kick out of Bonhams little cymbal bell smash as Jimmy and Robert are going back and forth between the lead guitar and vocals.

Bet the were having fun in the studio recording that one..

Great post!

 

[Tituscrow]

Great, great song. But I'm with Darth here.

A good cover is a faithful, note-for-note replication. A great cover is when you make it your own.

 

[kellyrojo]

JPJ is very underatted IMO. Not on here or in the bass world but in the music world in general...People always talk about the big 3...and Jones. Thanks for posting all the clips folks....I mean this is some heavy arse playing for sure.....so sick! I know what I am learning tonight.

As far as learning it note for note, I think you should do that...not so you can play it on stage like that, but cause you will definitley get some awesome ideas on approaching some blues changes and melodicism while comping...I have learned a lot by transcribing solos...of all instruments....Miles, Maceo Parker, Jaco, whoever. They all made me think a lil differently about my phrasing

Wow thanks guys!

 

[jimmydean]

JPJ has always been one of the best bassist ever ! I would take him over a million Jaco's any day of the week . The solo in The Lemon Song is true perfection !!!!!

 

[tZer]

But I am absolutely certain that zep fans, in an audience, will be WAY happier hearing that solo note for note the way it is on the album.

I applaud you for your efforts and I too try to learn things - especially iconic lines like that - note for note for the sake of putting those notes and riffs into my bag o' tricks - not (necessarily) so I can reproduce it on command in an effort to appease 'people who want to hear that'.

There's really no arguing that learning the riffs in "The Lemon Song" is worth any bass players time.

I will argue that you or me or anyone else can lump 'Zep Fans' into a homogenous group and then predict what they want - other than the fact that they almost certainly want Zep. The aspect of Zep that appealed most to me - along with all the other things - was how they improvised and jammed. "Dazed and Confused" live is another fine example.

The thing that drew me to Zep was the way Bonzo and Jones (and the rest of the band) worked together to take a moment and make it great - wherever that moment led them. "The Lemon Song" is a fine example of Bonzo and Jones capturing a moment and really working off of each other.

IMO it's that magic that people want from any band given over to improvisational moments like that. They want to hear the musical story unfolding between the drummer and the bass player and be able to tell that they are indeed having an evolving conversation - not just 'riffing'.

While I will agree that if you don't include some of the more identifiable riffs, some Zep heads (bass players, primarily) will think you copped out. But I do believe that if you do the original part justice and pay proper tribute and respect by copping many of the riffs, you will be granted much latitude by the crowd to do your own thing as long as you are making the same kind of connection with your drummer and taking them for the same kind of ride that Bonzo and JPJ did.

 

[Joe Nerve]

While I will agree that if you don't include some of the more identifiable riffs, some Zep heads (bass players, primarily) will think you copped out. But I do believe that if you do the original part justice and pay proper tribute and respect by copping many of the riffs, you will be granted much latitude by the crowd to do your own thing as long as you are making the same kind of connection with your drummer and taking them for the same kind of ride that Bonzo and JPJ did.

I can agree with that. If fact, I've considered (and now may reconsider) taking the 4th time around and making it my own, in order to please those who might not agree with my note for note contention. I am in this, the tribute thing, to make audiences happy. I have to admit though that my adding some of my own saves me time, and makes it easier and more fun...

For argument sake and to prove my point I was just youtubing a whole bunch of cover versions of the lemon song, and as much as I hate to say it, there are a handful of bands doing their own solos that totally work, and sound better than some of the bands covering it note for note. Maybe I"ll back off on my certainty regarding this (I vaguely remember being wrong once before about something I felt strongly about), but I'm also going to consider it more of a challenge to make the note for note stuff work. A lot of note for note covers of this are lacking any life or excitement. Now it's even more of a challenge, ay?

 

[hennessybass]

JPJ has always been one of the best bassist ever ! I would take him over a million Jaco's any day of the week . The solo in The Lemon Song is true perfection !!!!!

YES

 

[bucephylus]

Big +1 to Kelly and Tzer. Learn the part to get the vocabulary. THAT is Blues. Not meant to be recited. That would totally kill a live performance. Got to take it somewhere new. Anything else does not pay tribute to the form.

I am also a LONG time fan of this tune; all the way back to the day it issued. It caught my attention immediately. The thing I have never understood is why none of JPJ's other recordings get even close to this one. At various times I have wondered if some unknown studio wizard ghosted it (not suggesting that). Its just in another zone as far as his work goes.

 

[bucephylus]

JPJ has always been one of the best bassist ever ! I would take him over a million Jaco's any day of the week . The solo in The Lemon Song is true perfection !!!!!

Yes

Oh, come on, now.

Yes

 

[tZer]

I can agree with that. If fact, I've considered (and now may reconsider) taking the 4th time around and making it my own, in order to please those who might not agree with my note for note contention. I am in this, the tribute thing, to make audiences happy. I have to admit though that my adding some of my own saves me time, and makes it easier and more fun...

For argument sake and to prove my point I was just youtubing a whole bunch of cover versions of the lemon song, and as much as I hate to say it, there are a handful of bands doing their own solos that totally work, and sound better than some of the bands covering it note for note. Maybe I"ll back off on my certainty regarding this (I vaguely remember being wrong once before about something I felt strongly about), but I'm also going to consider it more of a challenge to make the note for note stuff work. A lot of note for note covers of this are lacking any life or excitement. Now it's even more of a challenge, ay?

I salute you for your drive and commitment to bass playing excellence and for putting the audience first.

 

[HolmeBass]

Thanks for posting this! While watching and listening to that it's now very clear why JPJ said "back in my sessions days if producers needed the bass to sound like Motown they called me." Like Jaco said...."it ain't braggin' if you can back it up."

JPJ could more than back that claim up.

Sorry, but I never hear Motown or Jaco in this tune.

My vague memory of this is that it was a spur of the moment event laid down in a small California studio. It represents this branch of electric bass playing at its apex.

I hear Jamerson's influence in a lot of different music, but very strongly in this cut. Now I'm not saying I can play like Jamerson, because I can't, but stuff I have played has reminded people of that and caused them tell me that I've got that Jamerson thing down. Yes, they were being nice. What I don't tell them is that I learned *all* of that 1-5-octave stuff and rakes and such from JPJ and Geddy Lee!

Not that I can play like JPJ or Geddy, either; my style is absolutely a product of my own limitations combined with my influences. I am saying that now that I'm finally studying Jamerson's lines I can see what a huge influence he had on everybody that came after him, in all genres of music. I think he was obviously a huge influence on JPJ, not taking anything away from JPJ because he had many influences and of course had his own magical thing going on, just that I can hear the influence.

 

[Spectrum]

Back in the 80s when I started taking bass lessons my instructor was a music major at a local college. He played electric, upright, finger style or with a bow, classical, jazz, rock, funk. Read music, improvise bass lines on the fly, basically a pro whose skills I found dazzling and to this day I regret not continuing with him for a little longer.

And he was a die-hard JPJ fan. His opinion was that The Lemon Song was one of the coolest bass lines in rock, along with What Is and What Should Never Be and a few others.

I was always too lazy to learn this line note for note, but I want to someday. Not to play for an audience; just for my own satisfaction.

 

[Britbonic]

There are great lines in this tune to be sure but most of what makes it work is that it grooves, especially the interplay with Bonham's drumming. While this doesn't sound like a Jamerson bass part you can hear many elements of his playing - nice and big on the 1s, tasty bluesy 16th note riffs - in his playing.
IMO, focusing on the feel and the groove and learning some of the signature riffs will closer to sounding like JPJ than learning every note he played in the studio.

 

[nicksharpe]

in the school of white boy funk, JPJ is a prerequiste.

it' not so much copping his licks as getting in to the mindset to play that way - prolly from practicing scales and inversions and all that tech stuff that fell by the wayside when punk and 2nd Gen hair metal took over. hey i never learned it either- you don't have to be a bad ass to be entertaining, but it helps ;-)