No, I said that the original singer has more of a claim on a song than someone who replaced him in the same band and sometimes sings the same song in concerts. I think we're done here.
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John Wetton and Asia
- Thread starter GreggBummer
- Start date
No, I said that the original singer has more of a claim on a song than someone who replaced him in the same band and sometimes sings the same song in concerts. I think we're done here.
Sorry in this case I just don't see that this is anymore Gregs song than Johns. I sincerely doubt that Wetton is put out in anyway having to play and sing the song in this incarnation and in fact I'm guessing he probably suggested. If he were put out I doubt that they would do it.
No we're done.
OK, I'm chiming in once more. Did I say he was put out or didn't want to do the song? :scowl: No, I'm sure he chose the song. To most people it's an odd choice, and the song IS more Greg's than John's. John has enough great songs that he has a truer claim to than that one.
The implication being that John is in Greg's shadow, etc. I just don't think he is and whatever claim Greg has to the song (he's not the composer) as the 'original vocalist' is very minimal.
YMMV, my $.02 etc.
YMMV, my $.02 etc.
The post you quoted doesn't say that John didn't choose the song or that he was put out either. It says he hasn't fully escaped Greg's shadow, something I would agree with. It shouldn't be that way necessarily, because he has a lot to offer himself as a fine musician and singer.
I thought of a better comparison than the ones you were making, which didn't match up to this situation at all. Phil Collins doing The Knife live in concerts after Gabriel quit. The original was before Phil even joined. The composer thing doesn't really have all that much to do with it. Court of the Crimson King belongs to Lake-era Crimson, all the members and not just Sinfield/McDonald. You seem to take issue with calling them Lake songs. Fine, it's not wholly accurate, but this seems like semantic nitpicking. I don't see how Greg's role in bringing the record to existence could possibly be considered "minimal", and the song has a LOT more to do with him than Wetton. Oh well, I'll never see your side and that's that. No hard feelings.
I thought of a better comparison than the ones you were making, which didn't match up to this situation at all. Phil Collins doing The Knife live in concerts after Gabriel quit. The original was before Phil even joined. The composer thing doesn't really have all that much to do with it. Court of the Crimson King belongs to Lake-era Crimson, all the members and not just Sinfield/McDonald. You seem to take issue with calling them Lake songs. Fine, it's not wholly accurate, but this seems like semantic nitpicking. I don't see how Greg's role in bringing the record to existence could possibly be considered "minimal", and the song has a LOT more to do with him than Wetton. Oh well, I'll never see your side and that's that. No hard feelings.
The post I quoted (and your last post indicates that you feel the same) implies that Wetton feels put out or in the shadow of Lake and I just don't believe that for a second. Both Wetton and Lake were members of KC and both sang the song many, many times. I believe a previous poster noted that Wetton had been a member of KC longer than Lake. To me, Lake is far better known for ELP than KC, and had Wetton been asked to sing 'Lucky Man' I would've agreed with you.
No hard feelings taken. We disagree and that alright.
No hard feelings taken. We disagree and that alright.
I going to jump back in here-
I think, by the time you are in your late 50's and early 60's like some of these old prog rockers are... you just set all that aside. The radio station I work for interviewed these guys and they all seem pretty "at peace" with the world they live in.
Asia, Yes, KC, Genesis, and a bunch of other bands are all in the same "Family" so to speak. They have their problems but they are all in it together.
Greg Lake and John Wetton are both pros... I would be happy to see either one perform any song.
I think, by the time you are in your late 50's and early 60's like some of these old prog rockers are... you just set all that aside. The radio station I work for interviewed these guys and they all seem pretty "at peace" with the world they live in.
Asia, Yes, KC, Genesis, and a bunch of other bands are all in the same "Family" so to speak. They have their problems but they are all in it together.
Greg Lake and John Wetton are both pros... I would be happy to see either one perform any song.
... and you know I gotta post Wetton with my favorite band ever!!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=b9QpI3wVvek&feature=related
I want that tone!
I have that one in my favorites! Great tone on that. My "tone goal" lies between the short bass solo section in the live version of Nothing To Lose and Roundabout
I have that DVD, just replaced my VHS copy and passed it on to a buddy. John's playing in Firth of Fifth is great. It turns up on eBay on a regular basis.
Great tone on that as well. Fallen Angel and One More Red Nightmare float through my brain on a regular basis. I've said it another thread, I could listen to him sing the phone book.
John's tone in late KC (especially live) is the most incredible bass sound ever (IMVHO).
Mellow and melodic in the mellow parts, a crunching brick wall when it got heavy. Like some kind of titanic, merciless machine, or Godzilla, stomping everything in its path. GLORIOUS! Kick out the jams!
His singing I could skip over but there is nothing to fault in the bass playing, just incredible the range he had. I'm surprised the sound didn't kill people at 30 paces.
Mellow and melodic in the mellow parts, a crunching brick wall when it got heavy. Like some kind of titanic, merciless machine, or Godzilla, stomping everything in its path. GLORIOUS! Kick out the jams!
His singing I could skip over but there is nothing to fault in the bass playing, just incredible the range he had. I'm surprised the sound didn't kill people at 30 paces.
I tend to flip-flop on the issue of Wetton's singing: Sometimes I think it's perfect, other times I think it's Michael Bolton's long-lost twin.
Ironically, I find my response to Greg Lake's singing far more consistant: despite the fact that it's never struck me as being problematic (which is a polite way of saying "Michael Bolton-esque" which is a really polite way of saying "Sounds Like Poo"), I always wind up finding Lake too treacly and saccharine to be enjoyable. Even his version of "21st Century Schizoid Man" was a bit too fey to be as effective as Wetton's or Burrell's.
Both have limited vocal ranges, but both are two of my favorite singers.
I never saw either as competition to the other, because they are so different. I do give the edge to Greg Lake as having a more powerful voice along with his bass playing.
Again I like both equally.
One more case of agreeing to disagree ref Lake vs. Wetton's bass playing. To my ears Lake has a slightly better voice (slightly being the key word) but Wetton's bass playing is much superior to Lake's.
(pedro looking for dictionary to find out what treacly is.)
I didn't realize when I posted that there was such a hot debate about Whetton vs. Lake.
It's funny... if you have been having this debate then you probably have been doing it since the 1980's (at least... maybe even the 1970's). Twenty years is a long time. However, one thing I think everyone agrees on is that both are influential musicians in their own right.
Furthermore, and you can't convince me otherwise, Batman would totally kick Supermans ass.
It's funny... if you have been having this debate then you probably have been doing it since the 1980's (at least... maybe even the 1970's). Twenty years is a long time. However, one thing I think everyone agrees on is that both are influential musicians in their own right.
Furthermore, and you can't convince me otherwise, Batman would totally kick Supermans ass.
I've always thought that Lake sounded a touch flat. I'd give Wetton the nod on both counts, but I have to say that I prefer Lake's original vocal on 21CSM. His vocals on "Cat Food" were also really good.
Don't forget that Lake also toured with Asia briefly after Wetton left.
Interesting to compare Lake to Wetton, of course there's a big time difference. I find Lake's voice to be smoother, Wetton has some growl. Since that's how I like my bass tone, I guess it makes sense that I like Wetton a bit better.
Lake in '83
Lake in '83
Yikes..... Lake is flat - not digging his interpretation of the song - sounds like karaoke. John seems to be taking some liberties as well, and dropping off, but his pitch is closer.
Anyway, the new album is interesting. IMO, it doesn't sound fresh and inspired, but mostly solid tunes. The longer songs are cool. Overall the song structures/chord progressions sound a tad familiar. I think they had a lot more to prove back in the 80s, which may have made the performances more fiery back then. Steve Howe used to rip a lot more then he does now - these days his playing sounds relatively pedestrian.
Anyway, the new album is interesting. IMO, it doesn't sound fresh and inspired, but mostly solid tunes. The longer songs are cool. Overall the song structures/chord progressions sound a tad familiar. I think they had a lot more to prove back in the 80s, which may have made the performances more fiery back then. Steve Howe used to rip a lot more then he does now - these days his playing sounds relatively pedestrian.
