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Jonesin' for a Tapper! (Stick / Warr / Megatar)

hey dude, sorry if i just cant find it in the thread muk, but how much are you paying for the tapper?

Oh, he has a standard price for the 12-stringer: $800 total, half on order, half on completion. Considering that I'm sure I can get at least 1/2 of that back out, even if I "graduate" to a "real" stick or whatever, I consider it a good deal.

And if I like it enough to just "stick" with it, it's a steal!:smug:
 
Just curious: Why do you think that will make for live playing possibilities? Is it because you basically have about half to two-thirds of a band in your hands?
Hello, Illbay,

Though now I'm the U.S. Manager for Mobius Megatar touch-style basses, and spend most of my time in the shop making Megatar instruments, some years ago I wanted to gig in public. Here's what I've learned hat's relevant to your question --


First, if you have already played bass or guitar, then *please* consider getting a touch-style instrument tuned in FOURTHS. All the makers (Chapman, Krappy, Warr, and ourselves) will deliver an instrument in fourths if you ask, and if you find an instrument that has some other tuning, you can redo it for the cost of a set of strings, and 10 minutes re-setting the bridge saddles for correct intonation.

Why? Because if you set up your bass strings and melody strings in straight fourths, and you use a sensible learning method, then 85-95% of what you already know will transfer in a matter of only a few days.

Further, since all those years of training your left fingers were actually training your head, and since your right fingers are wired into the very same head, you will discover that (with a sensible tuning and learning method) .. that what your left hand knows, your right hand *almost* knows already. Meaning that your right hand picks up fretting and chord/scale patterns surprisingly quickly.

So, with the right tuning, and the right method, you can learn up to performance level in a pleasingly rapid period of time.


Now, about gigging ...

First, it opens lots of new kinds of gigs for a bass player. You don't need to have other guys. You can do solo gigs. You might think this is complicated, but (nag nag nag) with the right method you can get there quickly.

For example, solo you can play coffee-house gigs, restaurant gigs, weddings (they'll feed you, and everybody is happy!), and openers for larger acts.

Plus you can find two-person gigs, if you want to work with a drummer, or a singer, a good keyboardist, or a sax player.


Now, because the instrument is 'odd', there's an extra bit of work you may have to do to land the gigs. What worked for me (for getting solo gigs) was this --

I found a company which would print up a large brochure that folded, so that there were four letter-sized pages. On the front page a photo of myself in a tux showing the instrument, and a name for the act ('Celestial Jazz').

Inside I wrote a bio as a narrative story, not only about myself, but about the instrument as well. And then a great big part, like a restaurant menu, that showed a lot of songs, which I'd learned.


This promo piece, along with a cassette of recorded tunes, and I got gigs. To get the gigs, I made a list of restaurants, then walked into the place mid-afternoon (between lunch and dinner) and (usually) found the manager there. Showed him my brochure, then left it and the cassette, then followed up by phone, asking if he had an evening available for me to play.

I was aiming at dinner music in restaurants, but then also picked up some corporate jobs and weddings through the restaurant exposure.

Now since I didn't know many songs, I'd play some that I knew, then walk around the room, handing my 'menu' to people and asking if they had any requests. Because they were looking at a menu, they picked songs from the menu, and thus didn't ask me for songs I didn't know, but since I'd then played their requests, it made the tips better. (I had a signboard and prominent tip jar near the exit.)


Frankly, I wasn't a very good player.

But here's the wonderful thing.

Nobody has ever seen Segovia playing one of these touch-style instruments. Because it's new, it's novel. And, although it's not fair, novelty is entertaining. It's show business.

It was fun, and with just a little legwork, it was pretty easy.

It's something that pretty much any bassplayer can do, and it's a way to set up gigs that don't depend on other guys showing up for rehearsals or any of that.

And ... two-handed touchstyle is fun to do! So you get to have a good time, and it's another avenue for earning a living.
 
Though now I'm the U.S. Manager for Mobius Megatar touch-style basses, and spend most of my time in the shop making Megatar instruments, some years ago I wanted to gig in public. Here's what I've learned hat's relevant to your question --...

Wow, "Traktor," I appreciate the voluminous advice! I will immediately change my order to reflect strings tuned in fourths as you suggest!

Also, what "method(s)" do you recommend, precisely?

Thanks again!
 
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Wow, "Traktor," I appreciate the voluminous advice! I will immediately change my order to reflect strings tuned in fourths as you suggest!

Also, what "method(s)" do you recommend, precisely?

Thanks again!
Let's see.

You've asked me what method, precisely, do I recommend?

Well, (ahem), along with another fellow, I actually wrote this method down in detail. It's called the 'Easy Touch-Style Method,' and although it was designed for playing by touch on bass or guitar or specialty tapping instruments, the same system can easily be applied to learning normal bass as well.

So, I recommend the same method that I used to learn to play, and that's revealed in complete detail in this method book.

Now ... how to get a copy? Hmmm.

You *could* go to EBay and buy a copy of this book. We sell them there.

But the fact is ... you can also get a free download of the same 'Easy Touch-Style Bassics' method book when you subscribe to the MegaTapper Newsletter (which is also free). The newsletter contains music lessons and articles which would be useful for anybody starting to play bass.

The form to get newsletter and method book is here --

Two-Handed Tapping Newsletter with free bass lessons and method book

(Of course, the internet has taught us all to be cautious, so let me reassure you that your information will be used only to send you the newsletter and book, and will not be available to any outside party, and you can drop out of the newsletter any time you wish with one click at the bottom of any newsletter.)

This modular approach has worked well for me, and for hundreds of other folks. I'll bet you'll find it useful. Please enjoy it with my compliments. And I would be interested to hear how it works for you.

:)
 
Let's see.

You've asked me what method, precisely, do I recommend?

Well, (ahem), along with another fellow, I actually wrote this method down in detail. It's called the 'Easy Touch-Style Method,'...

Well, I'll have you know I just ordered a (hypothetical) spiral-bound edition of the book on Amazon (they'll try to find a copy of it somewhere - if you have any idea where I can get it, let me know).

I'd prefer to have a spiral-bound copy.
 
Hello, Illbay,

If you're talking to Kevin Seibold, the builder at Krappy, I think you can just tell him to use what Mobius Megatar calls 'BassBottom.' He should be familiar with it. (And tell Kevin howdy from Traktor.)

But if not, then you can look on EBay and search for either BassBottom or Mobius Megatar. (We sell strings on EBay.) On the listing for the strings it gives all the gauges, by string number, and the notes for each string.

Kevin might give you different gauges for his instrument, of course, but the bass strings will be tuned exactly like a six string bass, so you will already know where those notes are on the bass side. The melody is similar to a guitar in straight fourths at fret three. (When both guitar and bass strings are put on one long neck, the 'nut' notes for the guitar need to be about three half-steps lower, for correct string tension.)

And the beauty of this tuning is that (using our own fretboard markers for reference), if you place your left hand just above the double dots at fret two on bass strings, and place your right hand just above the double dots at fret twelve on melody strings, then beneath each hand the notes are identical across all six strings. (Two octaves apart, but exactly the same notes.)

This makes your initial learning and the transference of what you already know very clear and easy, because you operate the two hands identically to produce the same sequence of notes. (Operating the two hands differently can be learned, but it's like the kid trying to tap his head and rub his tummy. The human isn't built to operate that way. But anybody can quickly and easily tap both the head and the tummy.)

If we don't have strings listed on EBay at that precise minute, then download the Mobius Owner's Guide, which has a chart that lists the strings and gauges and notes by string number, here --

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

The Owner's Guide also spells out how to adjust trussrods and how to set standard intonation, for anybody new who is just starting out.
 
...subscribed.



LOL, and while I'm thinking about it: For a guy who has no problem spouting off his insightful and accurate opinions, you really don't know much about basses now. Do you?

If it was just a regular bass, I'd see what you were getting at. We all know regular basses are tuned in fourths. But it's not.

There's a myriad of different tuning possibilities for touchstyle instruments - all fourths (no split), fourths with reciprocal fifths, baritone/tenor and plenty more (many of which are specified on the Stick website). I assume Kevin is asking which one of these to go for.
 
...while I'm thinking about it: For a guy who has no problem spouting off his insightful and accurate opinions, you really don't know much about basses now. Do you?

I suppose that I know very little in the grand scheme of things. I do know some things pretty clearly, though, such as that a magnetic pickup doesn't care a whole lot about "tonewood."

However, I readily admit to knowing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about touchstyle intruments and their tunings, which is what this thread is about.
 
First, if you have already played bass or guitar, then *please* consider getting a touch-style instrument tuned in FOURTHS. All the makers (Chapman, Krappy, Warr, and ourselves) will deliver an instrument in fourths if you ask, and if you find an instrument that has some other tuning, you can redo it for the cost of a set of strings, and 10 minutes re-setting the bridge saddles for correct intonation.

Why? Because if you set up your bass strings and melody strings in straight fourths, and you use a sensible learning method, then 85-95% of what you already know will transfer in a matter of only a few days.

Further, since all those years of training your left fingers were actually training your head, and since your right fingers are wired into the very same head, you will discover that (with a sensible tuning and learning method) .. that what your left hand knows, your right hand *almost* knows already. Meaning that your right hand picks up fretting and chord/scale patterns surprisingly quickly.

So, with the right tuning, and the right method, you can learn up to performance level in a pleasingly rapid period of time.


Interesting advice. While I think the "matching reciprocal fifths" or whateverthefuq Chapman calls their standard Stick tuning has a lot of potential for expanding a bassists (or guitarists) vocabulary, I have to admit that 90% of the Stick players I hear sound like the tuning is coercing the music they're playing. IOW, they're not making musical decisions entirely based on what sounds best but rather based on what's easily possible on the instrument. This IMHO is a bad idea.

I played Chapman Stick for about 2 or 3 years in the late 1980s. I got it because I was in a band that performed a lot of dense orchestrated avant-garde music influenced equally by 20th Century "Classical" (sic) music, post-1960s jazz, prog rock, and 3rd Stream music, and I wanted an instrument with the extended range a Stick offers so I could play countermelodies and support lines as well as bass parts. What I quickly discovered was that the Stick (and its reciprocal fifths tuning) does not lend itself to certain intervals...intervals that are perfectly common, ones you would expect to encounter in any contemporary music. (Eg, tertian arpeggios using the left hand only.)

So perhaps if I had heard traktor's advice 20 years ago I might still be playing Stick today!
 
While I think the "matching reciprocal fifths" or whateverthefuq Chapman calls their standard Stick tuning has a lot of potential for expanding a bassists (or guitarists) vocabulary, I have to admit that 90% of the Stick players I hear sound like the tuning is coercing the music they're playing. IOW, they're not making musical decisions entirely based on what sounds best but rather based on what's easily possible on the instrument. This IMHO is a bad idea.

Interesting observation. While I think the inverted bass in 5th is quite powerful in terms of chord voicings and ergonomics, I decided to go the 4ths route with my own Stick playing. I still mirror the strings though (lowest pitches in the middle). I found the parallel 4ths arrangement, while allowing immediate translation of some bass concepts, presents some limitations in terms of two handed solo playing (at least for my own style and music). The limitations mostly have to do with the fact that the fretting hand is also sounding the notes on a tapping instrument... inverting the 4ths on bass opens up the hands more, requiring less scrunching of fingers for chords (and in turn opens up more possibilities for accompaniment techniques like melodic fills, pull-offs, etc.... I get kind of bored sometimes with simple arpeggios and block chords). Perhaps my youtube videos demonstrate this better than I can explain it.
 
...you can just tell him to use what Mobius Megatar calls 'BassBottom.'...

Ironically, I'm not that good at understanding "mechanical" things by verbal or written description. I read over the description of "BassBottom" tuning in your Bassic Tapstyle manual a couple of times, but still wasn't clear what string went where.

The "decoupling" of the fretboard in your diagrams didn't help me, either, because I couldn't see the relationship between the strings, nor could I be sure that I understood whether I was playing "cross-hands" or not. I assume so, but it just isn't clear to me.

Are the strings kind of "reciprocally tuned?" That is, do the lowest strings in the treble AND in the bass "meet in the middle?" Or do they run from highest to lowest going from one side to the other? If so, which side?

Let's assume I'm holding the thing upright on my lap, prepared to play. Assume further that the Neck is sitting to left of my body.

Now, if I understand correctly the strings are tuned B0-E1-A1-D2-G2-C3 in the bass (as sounded, not as written), and then C#2-F#2-B2-E3-A3-D4 (again, as sounded) in the treble strings.

So, do the B0 and C#2 strings sit next to each other? Or how are they arranged?

Thanks for your patience and time.
 
Ironically, I'm not that good at understanding "mechanical" things by verbal or written description. I read over the description of "BassBottom" tuning in your Bassic Tapstyle manual a couple of times, but still wasn't clear what string went where.
OK. And although I'm not 100% sure I understand this post of yours, I'll do my best to respond.

The "decoupling" of the fretboard in your diagrams didn't help me, either, because I couldn't see the relationship between the strings, nor could I be sure that I understood whether I was playing "cross-hands" or not. I assume so, but it just isn't clear to me.
The normal or 'standard' way to tune a touch-style instrument is with the bass stringset closest to your face as you play it, and the melody stringset furthest to your left as you play it.

There are some people who swap the two stringsets, and they call this the 'uncrossed' string arrangement, because now the bass is on your far left, and typically is played with the left hand. In this uncrossed string arrangement, the melody is closest to your face, and typically is played with your right hand, and so now as you move your two hands up and down the fretboard, they will never run into each other.

While this is a nice benefit, many players, including myself, do not find the hands to be as comfortable in the way they lie upon the strings in the uncrossed string arrangement.

The free method book shows the tuning of the bass stringset and the melody stringset. But whether the bass stringset is closest to your face ('standard') or whether the bass stringset is furthest to your left ('uncrossed') is up to you, and what you find most comfortable.

If you can find a 1x4 piece of lumber about four feet long, and prop it up on a table before which you are standing, you can place your hands on this 'pseudo fretboard', and decide which way feels best to you: standard, or uncrossed.

Are the strings kind of "reciprocally tuned?" That is, do the lowest strings in the treble AND in the bass "meet in the middle?" Or do they run from highest to lowest going from one side to the other? If so, which side?
In our standard 'BassBottom' tuning, both sets of strings ascend in the same direction. I am surprised that this was not clear in the book. This is the first time I've had feedback to this effect.

Let's assume I'm holding the thing upright on my lap, prepared to play. Assume further that the Neck is sitting to left of my body.

Now, if I understand correctly the strings are tuned B0-E1-A1-D2-G2-C3 in the bass (as sounded, not as written), and then C#2-F#2-B2-E3-A3-D4 (again, as sounded) in the treble strings.

So, do the B0 and C#2 strings sit next to each other? Or how are they arranged?
As you have described it, this is BassBottom tuning from string twelve to string one. and the highest bass string (C3) would be next to the lowest melody string (C#2).

The largest bass string is closest to your face. The highest melody string is furthest to your left. As long as you have the stringsets in 'normal', not 'uncrossed' string arrangement.

I hope this information is useful to you. However, If you have further questions, perhaps it would be better for the purpose of this thread to send email direct to me, at 'tappers/AT\megatar/DOT\com'.
 
I hope this information is useful to you. However, If you have further questions, perhaps it would be better for the purpose of this thread to send email direct to me, at 'tappers/AT\megatar/DOT\com'.

I think I've got it, now. I am not criticizing your book; as I said, I'm notoriously bad (for an engineer) at having a difficulty deciphering written or verbal information.

But I think I got it, now! :)
 
Kevin Siebold send me this pic earlier today. Looks like it's getting near done (and a whole bunch of its classmates as well).

I guess he does 'em in "batch mode," because he tells me this is the "second graduating class so far this year."

My "Krapman Schtick" is in the very middle. The svelte one (in stark contrast to its soon-to-be owner...) :smug:
 

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