Joyo Tuner IS a Korg Pitchblack less $30

[behndy]

You can say that again.

HAH! Sneaky Double Post Deleting is SNEAKY!

 

[caeman]

I wondered what that pink blur was...

 

[behndy]

NEKID STREAKY MISTAKES ERASER LAD.

NSMEL in a diamond on my chest SON.

 

[MSUsousaphone]

In some ways....it is totally shady and I wish it didn't happen. Some of these boutique builders take years of research and trial/error to get their sounds right. It sucks to see someone swoop in and start stealing profits on that.

On the other hand.....The Korg Pitchblack for almost $100? Really. That's almost as bad as a volume/frequency cut pedal being sold for $180. Kinda don't feel bad for that. Clone away.

 

[caeman]

Sousa, what about the mass production builders that continues to charge inflated prices on products that long since paid for their developments and product line changes, like Boss. Normally, the more of something you can make, the cost goes down, but Boss pedals only seem to get more expensive.

 

[father of fires]

Sousa, what about the mass production builders that continues to charge inflated prices on products that long since paid for their developments and product line changes, like Boss. Normally, the more of something you can make, the cost goes down, but Boss pedals only seem to get more expensive.

So that gives someone the right to steal their designs? They will charge what the market will handle. When people stop buying the prices will surely go down.

I'm all for copying designs for DIY (which I do a lot of) and I find it hard to pay for most things that I can build myself but I will support a business trying to make money on their own design (no matter how old) and will not champion someone whose business model is to clone and undercut.

If a company copies with the goal to innovate I'll give them a shot.

 

[Wud]

I'd think the rising costs for raw materials and components, coupled with escelating fuel charges for distribution chains has a lot more to do with Boss's rising prices.

 

[caeman]

Innovation comes from copying the progress of others and making your own changes. Only the asian makers be called on the floor for this. Why not all of the boutique vendors that have done the same thing, made a change or two to a Boss design, or an MXR design, and marketed is as their own pedal? Is okay as long as you building them by hand? Or in America?

Regarding all of the Ross compressor clones, I wonder how many of them are paying Ross any money as a thank you for the work he did, that they then copied and modified for their own use?

Ultimately, the market will indeed bear the brunt of the choice. Despite the presence of Joyo, OCD pedals continue to sell well. So do Boss and MXR pedals.

Boss, MXR and the like are not losing any business to Joyo because -- to quote a TEDtalk on IP in the Fashion Industry and how the lack of IP didn't hurt the industry-- "They are not our customers." In the absence of the Joyo, Dano or Behringer, that person would not have purchased the other pedal at the higher price.

And before you think, "you are just saying that because all you own is Behringer and Dano..."

 

[AmpedSilence]

Innovation comes from copying the progress of others and making your own changes. Only the asian makers be called on the floor for this. Why not all of the boutique vendors that have done the same thing, made a change or two to a Boss design, or an MXR design, and marketed is as their own pedal? Is okay as long as you building them by hand? Or in America?

Regarding all of the Ross compressor clones, I wonder how many of them are paying Ross any money as a thank you for the work he did, that they then copied and modified for their own use?

Ultimately, the market will indeed bear the brunt of the choice. Despite the presence of Joyo, OCD pedals continue to sell well. So do Boss and MXR pedals.

Boss, MXR and the like are not losing any business to Joyo because -- to quote a TEDtalk on IP in the Fashion Industry and how the lack of IP didn't hurt the industry-- "They are not our customers." In the absence of the Joyo, Dano or Behringer, that person would not have purchased the other pedal at the higher price.

you make valid points sir and I wholeheartedly agree!

I can also agree with others opinions about the discussion but I do believe that this kind of "cloning" is what brings about progressive thinking.

Has there been very many completely original ideas/designs in the past few years?

 

[father of fires]

JOYO, Dano, etc. are companies that straight up clone designs. I don't see any innovation in their copies. I said nothing about needing to be handmade or American made.

 

[AmpedSilence]

JOYO is a company that straight up copies designs. I said nothing about being handmade or American. I don't see any innovation in thier product line.

Also, Ross copied his designs for his Distortion from MXR who took it from Dan Armstrong.

The compressor is no longer in production so people had to make clones if they wanted one.

I'd say offering a pedal at a low price is pretty innovative

I do try to support local (american) builders by buying their pedals not only to show support but because their is certain customer service and a level of quality you probably wouldn't be able to get from a Chinese mass pedal builder.
If I lived in China, I'd buy Joyo. but for the price they are offered here, you can't blame people for buying the more inexpensive brand..

 

[father of fires]

I think we are arguing about different things. It is my opinion that companies like JOYO are making cheap copies of some in production products. I was just suggesting that if possible, the OP should support the original builders. I do not want to get into an cloning/ethics debate because to be honest my opinions change depending on the particulars of any given situation. I do not think Asain companies or their practices are evil and I do not think cloning is bad. But I will not personally support a company like JOYO even if they have a super cheap graphic EQ that I could use.

 

[caeman]

Even if the Graphic EQ is functionally identical and the generic in nature, you would opt to pay more because of the name?

 

[ulynch]

The thing about Joyo vs. Harley Benton is a misunderstanding. The parent company that makes the pedals is Elder Audio Manufactory, and their products are stamped with many different brand names depending on the importer. Thomann of Germany imports gear and has it branded Harley Benton. Others get the labels Joyo, GLX, Beta Aivin, and many more. This is a normal Asian wholesale manufacturing deal, not a scam. Different from the Freekish Blues thing of making false claims.

So do the Joyo tuner's guts come from the same factory as the Pitchblack?

A Pontiac Vibe and a Toyota Matrix are the identical vehicle, made in the same factory, with slightly different body panels and new badging. The Pontiac is $3000 less.

A Ford Ranger and a Mazda B2500 are the same vehicle, made in the same factory, with new badging. The Mazda is $3000 less.

And I'd bet this is the core of the issue for most of the so-called "clone" pedals. There are only so many mass production PCB factories. Various distributors might purchase a basic design from these factories, have their own casing added on, then market the product as their own.

Or an effects company might develop a circuit, and hire that factory to produce it for them. An unscrupulous factory might then turn around and sell that design to another distributor for resale in other markets.

Since auto companies have more lawyers, you don't see Ford suing Mazda. Mazda already paid for the rights. Or did Mazda develop the vehicle, and Ford licensed it? As consumers, there's little chance we'll ever know.

China is notorious for poor intellectual property protection, but as a consumer, there's no way we can know whether Joyo has stolen Korg's circuit, or if Korg simply purchased a stock circuit from the manufacturer and has no further right to it than Joyo, or if Joyo has licensed the product from Korg.

We don't even know if the similarities extend beyond the case. Anyone have schematics for the original and the devices they claim are clones? How do we know Joyo's Ultimate Drive is a clone of the OCD? Just because it's marketed that way? And isn't the Oh See Demon a clone of the OCD?

I'd be interested in hearing of any pending litigation between these companies.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

By the way, the Korg Pitchblack is made in Vietnam, not China.

 

[caeman]

By the way, the Korg Pitchblack is made in Vietnam, not China.

Nooooooooooooooo! You have just obviated this entire thread!!!!!

 

[father of fires]

Even if the Graphic EQ is functionally identical and the generic in nature, you would opt to pay more because of the name?

Generally no but instead of paying more I'd just go without.

But I'm also broke with loose morals so i can't say I'd never do it.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

Nooooooooooooooo! You have just obviated this entire thread!!!!!

The buzz. I kill it.

 

[TNCreature]

I have the Joyo tuner. It is good enough.
I didn't want to spend too much, amd a tuner is a tuner. No one's technology was hacked.
I like boutique pedals otherwise

 

[MSUsousaphone]

That's what I mean. If you're going to try to sell something at an insane price, I laugh a little bit when someone rips you off. I mean, it's shady and wrong, but it's just someone who was ripping people off getting ripped off. How appropriate.

Again, I understand a lot of boutiquers have to make up from all that time they spent researching their stuff. Not basing them at all. There's a few pedals that people around here drink the koolaid of that are just outrageously priced, but for the most part, it's kept sane. But yeah....a tuner? For $100? No way.