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JS Bach on Bass

#41
SteveCS said:
So that is clearly not a beginner book. It takes years to develop the hand-shape, bow-hold and posture such that you are able to meet the technical demands of this music. Whilst it is tempting to jump ahead and start making music, I would respectfully suggest you go to a qualified 'cello teacher and make 100% sure that you are holding the bow correctly, that you have good posture and that you know what correct hand-shape (left-hand) is. Not doing these things is guaranteed to limit your progress and lead to long-term potentially serious injuries that will hinder or even prevent you from playing.
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Understood and completely agree.

BTW - the book has I think just the first 4 measures of that piece. :)

I'm taking it slow, playing every day but taking it slow. I also have a teacher who just helped tremendously with bow hold.

It's a very humbling :) - but beautiful - instrument.
 
#42
SBassman said:
...
It's a very humbling :) - but beautiful - instrument.
...
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It certainly is, and hat's off to you for taking it on. My daughter started 'Cello at about 8 or 9 and went through the grades. Once she got to grade 6 at 15 she also started on double-bass and took both to grade 8. She is now 22 and just finishing year 3 of her 4-year BMus (Double Bass) at the Royal Academy of Music in London and is playing regularly with good orchestras in some pretty fine venues all over the country. But it takes time...
 
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#43
SteveCS said:
It certainly is, and hat's off to you for taking it on. My daughter started 'Cello at about 8 or 9 and went through the grades. Once she got to grade 6 at 15 she also started on double-bass and took both to grade 8. She is now 22 and just finishing year 3 of her 4-year BMus (Double Bass) at the Royal Academy of Music in London and is playing regularly with good orchestras in some pretty fine venues all over the country. But it takes time...
Click to expand...

So great to hear about your daughter's musical accomplishments.
Congratulations.

Time indeed. I was always afraid of instruments with no frets - and bowing. :)
But I am glad I dived into the water.
I have no grand delusions about becoming Yo-Yo Ma before I leave this planet.
But if I can build some basic skills and play some basic pieces cleanly, I will call it a success - and I will find it very rewarding. It's such a beautiful sounding instrument - arguably, the most beautiful of the instruments.

But yeah, oh so humbling. I can play pizz in first position - from having the left hand ability from the bass.
I can bow the open strings fairly well.
But the bowing of "fretted" notes still sounds like a sick animal after week 2.
In addition to the beauty of the instrument, it will also Force me to learn to be better at being Patient.
 
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#44
SteveCS said:
It certainly is, and hat's off to you for taking it on. My daughter started 'Cello at about 8 or 9 and went through the grades. Once she got to grade 6 at 15 she also started on double-bass and took both to grade 8. She is now 22 and just finishing year 3 of her 4-year BMus (Double Bass) at the Royal Academy of Music in London and is playing regularly with good orchestras in some pretty fine venues all over the country. But it takes time...
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Wow. Congrats to her! That's impressive!

( FA Cup final in three hours. Big day for us proper football fans in the US! )

.
 
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#45
The Bouree in E minor for lute is an easy piece. It's the one Jethro Tull did. The bass is a nice walking line but the topline is not difficult if you want to get into treble cleff.
This link may work.
https://www.flutetunes.com/tunes/bach-lute-suite-no1-bourree.pdf

In fact you could record yourself on the bass line and then play the upper part over it. That's a challenge. At least for me.
 
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#48
So, I'm learning quickly that the cello crew is a stuffy bunch. :)

Am I doomed? :D

Are there any online forums or Facebook groups where people conduct adult dialog on learning the cello - without all the snobbery? :cool:

Examples:
- Technique - it's the traditional way or the highway
- Take it to a luthier for an 800 dollar setup
- If you didn't pay 5K+ for your cello, it's junk
- If you didn't pay 1K+ for your cello, it's junk
- That tab stuff is WRONG.

Not everyone learns an instrument to join the orchestra or collaborate with Yo-Yo Ma.
Is there a practical, middle class cello community anywhere? :bassist:
 
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#50
SBassman said:
So, I'm learning quickly that the cello crew is a stuffy bunch. :)

Am I doomed? :D

Are there any online forums or Facebook groups where people conduct adult dialog on learning the cello - without all the snobbery? :cool:

Examples:
- Technique - it's the traditional way or the highway
- Take it to a luthier for an 800 dollar setup
- If you didn't pay 5K+ for your cello, it's junk
- If you didn't pay 1K+ for your cello, it's junk
- That tab stuff is WRONG.

Not everyone learns an instrument to join the orchestra or collaborate with Yo-Yo Ma.
Is there a practical, middle class cello community anywhere? :bassist:
Click to expand...

IME there is truth in many of those things but not all:
  • Technique - every layer of technical complexity is predicated on mastery of one or more lower-level technique, and this hierarchy goes all the way down to basics like how to sit and how to 'address' the instrument. Any technical flaws will progressively 'show' and undermine efforts to progress - the longer they go unchecked and uncorrected the harder they become to go back and fix.
  • Unlike electric basses, you really do get what you pay for - $500 and £10,000 instruments will be universes apart but the differences may not become fully apparent until you have the ears and technique to notice.
  • And wait until you start looking at fine bows - my daughter's current bass bow (on permanent loan from the Academy) is insured for more than all of my electric basses combined! In many ways the bow is more important than the instrument. The bow is your 'connection' with the strings: your 'instructions' to the 'cello are transmitted via the bow so it is a far more personal choice. Many players rent high-grade instruments but will use their own bow(s).
  • The setup thing is a bit of a red herring - $800 sounds excessive for the vast majority of players and only relevant to top 'name' professional soloists playing the finest of priceless instruments.
  • Regarding TAB - is TAB even a thing for 'cello?

But I hear you! We are not from 'that' background - our daughter made it through on raw talent and dedicated hard work with our full support as best we could. The stuff you talk about is sadly prevalent in certain circles, and none more so than the top conservatoires where many students seem to come from highly privileged, entitled and 'cliquey' backgrounds where money and access to top-quality tuition from an early age is taken for granted. That's not us - you just have to see it for what it is and take it as you find it whilst trying to develop a 'nose' to filter the good stuff from the BS. YMMV
 
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#51
There used to be a gentleman up in Port Angeles Washington who was one of the top bowmakers in North America. A friend of mine (a luthier) bought one of his less expensive bows for his daughter, who was a cellist at the University of Washington. He paid more for that bow than he did for her cello, which was a quite good quality instrument.
 
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#52
SBassman said:
Anyone who has worked on:
Cello Suite #1 In G Major - BWV 1007 - Prelude -

Care to offer up a view on how to position the hands for measure 26?

View attachment 5420879
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I would post a link to my video but I've actually revised my fingering for this segment recently so I no longer want to use that as an example. Other than the last beat of bar 27 I now avoid the 1st string altogether, choosing instead to shift up A string and work my way back down the D string, thus:
upload_2024-5-30_11-7-11.png

The notes in red are the first ones played after a shift. So on beat 1, the D and G are played with a 3-finger left hand in 3rd position, then shift to play B and D in 5th position, also with a 3-finger left hand. Then shift up to play the G on the A string with 2nd finger of a 4-finger left hand in 9th position. This is followed in the same beat by a shift to 8th position - see how the first G in beat 2 is stopped with 2nd finger and the second G is stopped with 3rd finger. Beat 3 incorporates a backwards extension to reach the (green) A with 1st finger, followed by a shift to get the Bb with 4th finger. The final shift at the end of beat 4 sets up bar 27 to be played all in 4th position with a 4-finger left hand.

I find the tonal balance is improved - the thicker strings respond better to the softer dynamic needed for this section, IMHO. And obviously YMMV!
 
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#53
Cool topic - just posting to sub and follow.

I have been working on a number of Baroque pieces but not cello works. Instead I'm learning the "left hand" parts for keyboard works, playing along with the "right hand" on guitar (played through MuseScore3).

Maybe one day I'll feel confident enough to record something and post here. I have a list of about dozen pieces I'm working on, maybe half are Bach (also Scarlatti, Purcell and Handel).
 
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#54
Very nice thread!

When starting to learn the cello suites my only bass was a 20 fret Fender. The unedited Vandersall edition no fingerings, bow or dynamics markings was very useful to finding fingerings. My old copy with those fingerings written in has been lost but this discussion has inspired to order a new one from Shar and pick up where I left off a few years ago at Suite 3 Sarabande. Dorico notation software is good but to do this work a paper manuscript and pencil (and many erasers) flow better with me bass in hand.
 
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