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JS Bach on Bass

#22
SBassman said:
Woke up last night with lots of energy - and played that one piece for 2 hours.
Plus lots this morning.
I'm so far along that I am starting another piece while I strengthen and memorize the first.
Now starting - Bach - Jesu Joy of Mans Desiring - BWV 147.
Click to expand...

Excellent!
I've been working primarily on learning piano lately, particularly working on comping skills, but I do have a couple Bach pieces I practice on keys too. This thread has inspired me, and I'm going to get back to the bass more this week and dust off the Bach and Dotz.
 
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#23
I started a second piece - Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring.

I purchased the chart from Sheet Music Direct as a starting point, and now that I have been in it a bit, I don't think it is correct. Pointing to starting at measure 14.

upload_2024-4-21_16-50-23.png


It - I think - should be back to the plucking there.

This YouTube video Does return to the plucking in measure 14.
upload_2024-4-21_16-52-54.png


Anyone able to offer some guidance? Is the YouTube version accurate? I'll switch to that, although I'll note that the YouTube version is very short. Would like to find something the precise length of the original piece.

?
 
#24
I will take a longer look at it when I get home, but that piece is only a couple of parts that were lifted from a much larger Bach composition that became popular, and it was originally a chorale composition...and the original melody Bach even took from an earlier composer, harmonized it, and wrote the music for the various instrumental pieces to accompany the chorale.
You do have to keep in mind (just like playing the Cello Suites) everything we do on the bass, is an INTERPRETATION of pieces written for other instruments. There can often be lots of leeway for interpretation of how to transcribe and play them on other instruments. Sometimes there are different sources that may contradict each other even, as Bach sometimes wrote out parts differently at different times for the same music.
Basically, with some pieces there is no actual "correct" version, or "correct' way to play all of it, especially for an electric bass guitar. For example, you can't bow a typical bass guitar (unless you have one of the fancy Wooten models ;) ) so all those expression markings for cello are out the window, and we have to interpret to our instrument.
 
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#27
I am finding I don't necessarily like other people's interpretations - in regards to their tempo change choices. :)

Yes, I know - I am the last person qualified to be making that statement about these pieces. :)

Looking forward to learning the piece deep enough where I put my own two cents into the tempo / feel of the various sections.
 
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#28
I once wrote out the parts of a Bach organ piece for 2 acoustic guitars and bass. I (naturally) used a Guild B50, and we recorded it for our own satisfaction.

Playing this sort of music lends itself to an ABG, and certainly tests one's abilities.
 
#30
SBassman said:
I am finding I don't necessarily like other people's interpretations - in regards to their tempo change choices. :)

Yes, I know - I am the last person qualified to be making that statement about these pieces. :)

Looking forward to learning the piece deep enough where I put my own two cents into the tempo / feel of the various sections.
Click to expand...

We should absolutely learn and practice these pieces using a metronome. I didn't mean to give the impression otherwise. It does sound counter-intuitive, but being able to consistently play these with a precisely controlled tempo is a prerequisite to being able to interpret them. Changing the tempo or drawing out/shortening a passage/notes/rhythm for expression, is different than covering up a section we can't execute at precise tempo.
 
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#31
I'm logging lots of time with the first piece on the metronome. The metronome is a cruel tool with these pieces. :) I can play the first chart smoothly now start to finish - with just the slightest gaps in time for switches when the section is complex for me. Put the metronome on, and those sections are significantly harder to keep perfectly in time.

One day at a time. I'm definitely getting there. I just don't have the skill at this time to ace it in a short period of time. The practice time on this material, though, for me is very, very enjoyable and rewarding.
 
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#32
SBassman said:
I'm logging lots of time with the first piece on the metronome. The metronome is a cruel tool with these pieces. :) I can play the first chart smoothly now start to finish - with just the slightest gaps in time for switches when the section is complex for me. Put the metronome on, and those sections are significantly harder to keep perfectly in time.

One day at a time. I'm definitely getting there. I just don't have the skill at this time to ace it in a short period of time. The practice time on this material, though, for me is very, very enjoyable and rewarding.
Click to expand...

Keep at it, you're on the right path. Our natural tendency is to push the tempos too soon. For those difficult sections, find the tempo that you can consistently (first time every time) perform it at, and then make that the tempo for the ENTIRE piece. Practice it all at that tempo and slowly increase it, just a click or two, over time....making sure you can play it ALL at that tempo before moving up. If you hit a tempo that you can't nail it all through, back down to one you can and go through it until there are no mistakes every time. Patience and, as you said, enjoying the process is the key.
 
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#33
When I think of J.S. Bach on bass, two things from my own distant past immediately come to mind:

- When I was an undergrad at music college one of the graduation requirements was you had to play at least one "Classical" [sic] piece on bass, so I chose the the Allemande from Bach's Suite for 'Cello No. 1. And that's almost certainly become the piece I've played more than any other in my life, because ever since then I probably play that every single time I pick up a bass. And I was an undergrad more than 40 years ago!

- When I was a senior in high school the orchestra director came to me and said "I understand you play the bass guitar. Ever play an upright bass? Here's one, rehearsal starts in an hour." And then the very first piece he called at my first rehearsal with the orchestra on an instrument that'd I'd only been playing for an hour was the Allegro from Bach's Brandenburg Concerto #1 ...the bass part of which, by measure 3, has become a relentless stream of 16th-notes. Bowed. Panic/hilarity/clams ensued.
 
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#34
About 10 years ago, my teacher was an adjunct prof at St. Mary's University school of music. He asked me to audition for their music program there, and I went ahead with it. The Cello Suite No.1 Allemande was one of the pieces I played on bass for the audition, along with a couple of Dotzauer Cello Etudes. I was accepted, but ultimately decided against getting a degree in music...I was already 20 years into my profession, and I didn't want to go into debt for a degree I'd never use. Despite them offering me scholarship money, it still would have cost me $60-80K. All of those pieces of music are still part of my repertoire for practice though.
 
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#35
Jaco also recommended the Dotzauer cello books to his students.
One thing I enjoy doing every once in a while is getting out my book of Bach's four-part chorales and reading the bottom parts. They're quite easy (written for singers), and you get a feel for what a genius he was at composing very musical bass lines.
 
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#39
So, since I last wrote ... :)

I worked on that piece every day. I found it very challenging. But I Did get it to the point where I know it and play it reasonably clean without stopping.

While all that was going on ...
I fell down the cello rabbit hole. I now own a cello, and I'm in first days of learning. The book I started with has the start of the Suite #1 Prelude. I intend to learn these pieces on the cello. Once I got through that chart, I was not satisfied. I felt like what it sounded like on bass was 2D/black and white, compared to 3D/color on a cello. Thus, the slipping on the banana peel and down the cello rabbit hole. :)
 
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#40
SBassman said:
...
I fell down the cello rabbit hole. I now own a cello, and I'm in first days of learning. The book I started with has the start of the Suite #1 Prelude.
...
Click to expand...

So that is clearly not a beginner book. It takes years to develop the hand-shape, bow-hold and posture such that you are able to meet the technical demands of this music. Whilst it is tempting to jump ahead and start making music, I would respectfully suggest you go to a qualified 'cello teacher and make 100% sure that you are holding the bow correctly, that you have good posture and that you know what correct hand-shape (left-hand) is. Not doing these things is guaranteed to limit your progress and lead to long-term potentially serious injuries that will hinder or even prevent you from playing.
 
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