Just a rant for a second.... drummer content following

[madmarvin]

Personally (because I dealt with this before.) I would step back from the issue and take a recording device and record a practice.
Then listen to how well the drums and bass blend together. Then see if you and band actually like the overall sound. You may actually find you want to tweak your EQ or that maybe the snare or toms need tweaked. Just some thing else to try.
Not really an easy "do this answer" since not there.
Have a great day though!

We record almost every practice and every show. I review those throughout the week and make changes as needed. I think maybe some missed up above where he said that I should use my acoustic bass exclusively from now on. It's ideas like this that make me mental. I get the whole colabrative part of being in a band, but when the ideas are like I said just chasing ghosts around, and it's frequent, it's tough to deal with. I know what I have to do at this point. I was just trying to vent a little bit before I aproached him, should be easier now so thank all of you.

Someone said something about the show nerves or something to that effect, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's like he is just tweaking and looking for problems just to occupy his head space and feel like he is doing something. I love to experiment and tweak, but when something is right I like to just leave it alone. He just physically can't. And it's fine, I just have to be the water not the rock.

I was just curious if it was a drummer thing. It seems a couple that I've played with have off the wall suggestions, now I know I'm the common factor here so there's that, but I think it may just be two quirky guys I've played with that have similar tendancies, and I probably subconciously encourage it and need to stop that.

"Water does not resist. Water flows. When you plunge your hand into it, all you feel is a caress. Water is not a solid wall, it will not stop you. But water always goes where it wants to go, and nothing in the end can stand against it. Water is patient. Dripping water wears away a stone."

 

[madmarvin]

After reading this post, I'm starting to think you're dealing with someone who has a bit of gig neurosis. I don't know what you'd call it, really, but I've worked with people who get so worked up with nervousness about a show that they will hyperfocus on everything that's happening while worrying constantly about audience reaction, and everything happening is a potential disaster. These may or may not be the same people who can't play well under pressure, but they sure do make it impossible to have any fun on stage.

This was the one. He does this in other areas too. I'm no psychologist but I think I have a better understanding now. I also am starting to think that he finds areas in my spot to poke at because I'm pretty easy going when it comes to this stuff, and I don't get rattled by it or really even upset. But it's like ice cream. I love ice cream. I would absolutely hate it if I had it every meal, and I think we have just gotten to that point. No more ice cream for a while lol.

 

[Mick Glasgow]

Somehow,you are creating an opening for his criticism. You have a middle finger attitude you can call on if you like. If you are not open to criticism you won’t get any.

 

[39-Bassist]

I guess what does the band say? Do they like your tone and playing?
Trust me drummers can be a pain just like guitarist and vocalist..lol
I think you should just say hey what is it that you hear? I would say no biggie on the trying different sounds for different songs if needed. BUT
is this an acoustic type of band or type of music you playing?

 

[kingforaday]

I’ve played with quite a few different drummers and only ever experienced it once… that drummer was also a live sound engineer so I figured it was that.

He would literally get up from his drum stool, walk across the room and start fiddling with the guitarists amp…
he was the new guy (replacing a drummer we were gutted to lose) which didn’t help everyone’s mood towards him. The final straw came when he began bringing in different amps and effects for others to use, instead of concentrating on learning the songs.

 

[murphy]

Drummers. Just.

Anyway, I'm just looking for support or maybe to just whine like a baby, but I love my drummer. He's my brother in law, great dude great player. But for the two years we've played together he is constantly (at least once or twice a practice, and at gigs...) commenting on my tone and how I should do this or do that. Now to be fair in those two years I have switched things up a bit, but always on my terms. I've played bass for 25 years. I've been working on it since the day I got one, and recently I have finally entered my happy place. I just want to be left alone. For reference, I am playing through a Peavey VB-2 and into a Bergantino NXT212. EQ set mostly flat, premp gain down power tube gain up. Using a P bass with a jazz at the bottom. Nothing crazy. But I've also used 4-5 other basses and those have never gotten a comment.

Do other drummers do this? Does it make you mental? I am being too sensitive, or is this something that maybe the guy slapping stuff with sticks should not comment on? Anyway, felt good just to write it out. I just really want to be left alone in the pocket and focus on what's important.

Really it's just annoying and I was looking to see if this was an overall drummer thing or just this drummer thing, or maybe it's a me thing. Who knows.

Remember where he sits...He gets a completely different mix and the tone he hears is NOTHING like you hear


and most drummers I've known are frustrated wannabe Bass Players. Are usually good ones too....cough....Mark King

 

[chris_b]

Got to admit I find the idea of a keyboard player saying anything should make sonic room for keys to be rather amusing, what with keyboards filling the entire human hearing range and beyond ...

I've spoken to guitarists and keyboard players about "the band's sound" and finding some room for the bass. If you make the comments in non critical, non specific terms and ask for suggestions, it usually gets the job done and everyone's happy.

 

[Biggbass]

Have you tried telling him to just play the drums and leave the bass playing to you?

 

[madmarvin]

I guess what does the band say? Do they like your tone and playing?
Trust me drummers can be a pain just like guitarist and vocalist..lol
I think you should just say hey what is it that you hear? I would say no biggie on the trying different sounds for different songs if needed. BUT
is this an acoustic type of band or type of music you playing?

They like it, guitarist is a big fan and band leader thinks it's great. I think I got this figured out, I feel like it's more on him and for some reason he just has gravitated to my area. Like I said I normally like the discussion but lately it has just been super grating. I just have to ignore it and there will be something else to focus on. Our sound is quite, but not like acoustic winery coffee house quiet. More like blues/jazz quiet. The acoustic is way too wild and unpredictable for this, and the tone is just not right either. Plug that thing into an amp it's like riding a bronco. Add in a PA mix and off to the races, some of it can be fun but man.....

 

[Ffreddy]

I do recall a conversation where he was asking me to do something whacky and then looked at me and said what do you think? I said well... if that's what you want then go find another bass player. He reacted by saying woa man relax, even though I wasn't really heated

If a band member acted the way you said you acted in this instance I would take it as a suggestion to start looking for that other bass player right after rehearsal.
Sounds like you have a problem with being passive aggressive too.

 

[madmarvin]

If a band member acted the way you said you acted in this instance I would take it as a suggestion to start looking for that other bass player right after rehearsal.
Sounds like you have a problem with being passive aggressive too.

Considering I made that suggestion, I wouldn't have taken offense. Like if that's what they want, then go get it. I find it interesting that most of comments about me changing are taking one part and placing heavy emphasis on it without looking at everything as a whole.

I also should add that there was another member of the band that is no longer in the band. He was one of the best musicians I've ever played with, is a music teacher in high school. He suggested a lot of things to me. They all made sense, and I tried to do what he asked. Some stuff he wanted I didn't agree with, but that was more about musical choices than instrumentation. Long story short, he's not in the band anymore. Not my choice. Not the guitarist choice. Even the band leader was iffy on it.

Passive aggressive? I guess. Hard to put two years of situations into one thread, but here we are.

So I guess the ultimate question here is how do you handle it when a band member gives you criticism and they really don't know what they are talking about. And it doesn't stop. And all the other things.

Ultimitely I've reached the conclusion it's on me to ignore it, but still try to stay receptive to good advice.

 

[murphy]

how do you handle it when a band member gives you criticism and they really don't know what they are talking about. And it doesn't stop. And all the other things.

This is unacceptable!
We all need compliments and encouragement to continue and to give our best.....Critical suggestions are fine too...if they are helpful.
If all you get are negative comments...LEAVE the band....or FIRE the drummer.
One or the other seem your only healthy choice!

 

[madmarvin]

This is unacceptable!
We all need compliments and encouragement to continue and to give our best.....Critical suggestions are fine too...if they are helpful.
If all you get are negative comments...LEAVE the band....or FIRE the drummer.
One or the other seem your only healthy choice!

probably true, but I rarely make healthy choices so... it is what it is. I can put on my big boy pants and go about my work, but this is definitely a problem and talking it out has helped me articulate it. I can see my role in it, or at the very least my role in my own feelings about it, and that I can change.

 

[Geddaric]

Tell him he needs to switch to a piccolo snare, or ask him when was the last time he actually tuned his drums..'

Sorry. Having a bad day. I should`ve taken this out on a drummer, not a basser.

 

[Ric5]

Drummers. Just.

Anyway, I'm just looking for support or maybe to just whine like a baby, but I love my drummer. He's my brother in law, great dude great player. But for the two years we've played together he is constantly (at least once or twice a practice, and at gigs...) commenting on my tone and how I should do this or do that. Now to be fair in those two years I have switched things up a bit, but always on my terms. I've played bass for 25 years. I've been working on it since the day I got one, and recently I have finally entered my happy place. I just want to be left alone. For reference, I am playing through a Peavey VB-2 and into a Bergantino NXT212. EQ set mostly flat, premp gain down power tube gain up. Using a P bass with a jazz at the bottom. Nothing crazy. But I've also used 4-5 other basses and those have never gotten a comment.

Do other drummers do this? Does it make you mental? I am being too sensitive, or is this something that maybe the guy slapping stuff with sticks should not comment on? Anyway, felt good just to write it out. I just really want to be left alone in the pocket and focus on what's important.

Really it's just annoying and I was looking to see if this was an overall drummer thing or just this drummer thing, or maybe it's a me thing. Who knows.

when ever someone micro manages my tone or playing it always ends badly

 

[sotua]

Drummers. Just.

Anyway, I'm just looking for support or maybe to just whine like a baby, but I love my drummer. He's my brother in law, great dude great player. But for the two years we've played together he is constantly (at least once or twice a practice, and at gigs...) commenting on my tone and how I should do this or do that. Now to be fair in those two years I have switched things up a bit, but always on my terms. I've played bass for 25 years. I've been working on it since the day I got one, and recently I have finally entered my happy place. I just want to be left alone. For reference, I am playing through a Peavey VB-2 and into a Bergantino NXT212. EQ set mostly flat, premp gain down power tube gain up. Using a P bass with a jazz at the bottom. Nothing crazy. But I've also used 4-5 other basses and those have never gotten a comment.

Do other drummers do this? Does it make you mental? I am being too sensitive, or is this something that maybe the guy slapping stuff with sticks should not comment on? Anyway, felt good just to write it out. I just really want to be left alone in the pocket and focus on what's important.

Really it's just annoying and I was looking to see if this was an overall drummer thing or just this drummer thing, or maybe it's a me thing. Who knows.

The best drummer I've ever played with had a favorite bass among the ones I owned. I respected his opinion a lot, even when I felt like playing the other basses it would still work. While comments can be grating, I would suggest listening first and see what the suggestions are pointing at. Perhaps you're in your happy place, but the overall sound could be improved using one of those suggestions, or maybe the drummer can't hear you as well as he did with your other basses?

I know I have told guitarists to cut some treble at least once (I suspect that one was because this guitarist worked in construction, so it wouldn't surprise me if he has some HF hearing loss due to spending all days at construction sites). Music in a band is a team exercise. It works better when you all listen to each other, both while playing and after playing.

EDIT: I saw some of your follow-up comments after posting this reply to your original, and it does sound like your drummer is getting annoying AF.

 

[darwin-bass]

Long thread - tl;dr.

Options:
1. Switch to IEM with personal mixers. No more monitors. Drummer gets clean sound he can control.
2. Dedicated bass amp for the drummer. Put it right next to him and let him control it (vol, tone).

You could just honestly let him know his comments are hurtful.

Or get on your high horse, assert your rights, put him in his place and elevate yourself in the pack order. Tell him to take a leap or basically take any number of "me first, you suck" approaches. I suspect the situation would change but it would be costly in the long run.

 

[LBS-bass]

Considering I made that suggestion, I wouldn't have taken offense. Like if that's what they want, then go get it. I find it interesting that most of comments about me changing are taking one part and placing heavy emphasis on it without looking at everything as a whole.

It's TalkBass. There's always going to be a subset of people here who will only read the first post, assume the person posting knows nothing and needs to worship at the altar of their micromanaging bandmates in the interest of "being open to suggestion."

There's nothing wrong with suggestions or being open but there's a huge difference between helpful advice and nitpicky, nervous nonsense, and most of us have a fairly good sense when we're being handed one versus the other. A lot of people refuse to acknowledge this. Blaming and piling on are internet spectator sports, so sometimes this stuff develops momentum. But I think you have sorted out what's likely going on here and it sounds to me like you have enough experience to know the difference between helpful advice and crazy talk. Your drummer is a worrier. That's really all there is to it.

 

[39-Bassist]

They like it, guitarist is a big fan and band leader thinks it's great. I think I got this figured out, I feel like it's more on him and for some reason he just has gravitated to my area. Like I said I normally like the discussion but lately it has just been super grating. I just have to ignore it and there will be something else to focus on. Our sound is quite, but not like acoustic winery coffee house quiet. More like blues/jazz quiet. The acoustic is way too wild and unpredictable for this, and the tone is just not right either. Plug that thing into an amp it's like riding a bronco. Add in a PA mix and off to the races, some of it can be fun but man.....

Well then I would just let it go and let the others in the band just kind of help put him into his place. (hopefully)
Oh and here is an idea...buy an Double Bass...make him really happy...lol

Have a great day!

 

[madmarvin]

It's TalkBass. There's always going to be a subset of people here who will only read the first post, assume the person posting knows nothing and needs to worship at the altar of their micromanaging bandmates in the interest of "being open to suggestion."

There's nothing wrong with suggestions or being open but there's a huge difference between helpful advice and nitpicky, nervous nonsense, and most of us have a fairly good sense when we're being handed one versus the other. A lot of people refuse to acknowledge this. Blaming and piling on are internet spectator sports, so sometimes this stuff develops momentum. But I think you have sorted out what's likely going on here and it sounds to me like you have enough experience to know the difference between helpful advice and crazy talk. Your drummer is a worrier. That's really all there is to it.

Exactly. And the last thing I want to do is jump in and worry with him. Thanks man, this all helped a lot.