Just a rant for a second.... drummer content following

[jeff7bass]

Wow. Really? lol

Back when I was playing lead guitar, I played thru a Marshall Major stack. Had a nice Trower-like, full tone. Then I joined a band with a keyboardist, and after a couple rehearsals they told me my tone needed a change. I had to lose some of the luscious creamy low-mids and work more in the treble range to make sonic room for the keys. After listening to a couple recordings of our rehearsals, I had to agree with them.

And before that, as a drummer I’d learned from the various players over the years that the tuning of my drums for heavy rock was not the optimal tuning for a jazz trio.

Maybe I’ve just been lucky to have always worked with players who can take suggestions, and can give them without being nasty.

That sonic room stuff is for real. I've read about it in the Genesis (band) biography. Interestingly enough, the band actually changed their sound after Peter Gabriel left saying that the heft in his voice consumed a lot of the frequencies. Rutherford's bass went from a more trebly RIC sound to a warmer (yet still discernable) sound with Collins.

 

[Wasnex]

I really thought I was done with this, but alas. This one is way off base. I also like to tinker and change things up. You really are missing the point. It isn't like a one time thing, or a little suggestion here and there. Lately it has become every practice, every show. It's comments, are you sure that effect works? I'm not sure about that bass. That line doesn't work. Try something more like...idk dumba dumba dumba. It's exhausting. I have tons of gear, have worked sound, and yeah I am still trying to get better tone, heck even the last show I learned something from the bass player in the band we played with. He had a different EQ setting then what I normally used, allowed more volume and less mud, worked well on that stage. I've put my rig on stands. I've taken it off stands. I've added cabs. I've subtracted cabs. I've played fretless, five strings, jazz basses, ibanezes, laklands, you freaking name it. He thought I should play my acoustic every show from now on cause I did one acoustic set, fought the damn thing all night with feedback, but that was great. Listen i get it....I'm just tired of having to constantly battle this.

I also do enjoy feedback, I like talking to people in band about what they need and want. But when you do that and the shell moves every week it's like *** do you want from me. I was looking for ways to approach him and talk about it, kind of see where my position was, whether I was off base or not. After reading all the comments I think it warrants a discussion next time he brings it up and I am just going to say back off, I got this.

And yes rabbit hole in this conotation is negative. I am not playing my acoustic every set. I'm not going to keep trying to find gear with no end game. The goal IS to sound like blues, again we are doing Elle King, Leonard Cohen, Black Keys kind of stuff.

I've played shows where I can hear every note, and FOH sounded like crap. I've played shows where I can't hear a note but FOH is great, mostly some outdoor type stuff. We are mostly a very quiet band. I would rather have the latter. I am just trying to figure out how to approach this without making a huge deal, but now this thread has gone south and people are making serious assumptions about me and him that just aren't true.

Given the evolution of you comments over the course of this thread, it's difficult to really get a good sense of what the problem is

From your first post:

But for the two years we've played together he is constantly (at least once or twice a practice, and at gigs...) commenting on my tone and how I should do this or do that.

I interpret comments on your tone as he can't hear you well enough. It's not unreasonable for people to discuss how to play together.

I interpret the suggestion that you do "this or do that," as (possibly) he thinks you are either playing the wrong notes, or the feel is off. If the feel is off, it may point back to he can't hear you well enough.

The later comments you reported about rattles and hum...I totally ignored those as they do not seem to relate to your gear or anything you need to fix. If it's crap in the room rattling when you play, it should be ignored. If its his drumset rattling, it's on him to fix it, and not your problem in any way.

Usually drummers ignore or are oblivious to the undesirable noises their set makes. On occasion where it has gotten out of hand, I have brought it up. I also sometimes make it an issue when it's obvious the drummer is not tuning the kit, so it sound like he's beating on wet cardboard.

Your overall tone throughout the thread indicates he wants to fix things and you just want to be left along to "do your thing." If this is not accurate I apologize. But if this is anywhere close to the truth, then you need to accept that playing music requires interaction, teamwork, and compromise.

Listen i get it....I'm just tired of having to constantly battle this.

Many of your comments in this response paint a different picture than your earlier comments. If he's really being overwhelmingly critical, I totally understand your frustration. The last drummer I played with was an exceptionally talented young punk who though very highly of himself. He refused to take any responsibility for time, randomly changed style in the middle of phrases, and frequently tried to tell me how to play bass based on what he had learned in various drum method books.

He actually held up a page in an introductory Latin percussion book and insisted I play bass exactly like the notes on the page. He basically indicated the way I was playing was insulting to Brazilians. We were playing a Bob Mintzer tune, and last I checked he is not Brazillian. Also the composition was obviously American rather than some traditional Brazilian tune. And for the record, Brazilian bass players take liberties and play a lot more creatively than the basic line in his method book.

So essentially he seemed to think that he should be free to do whatever he wanted, and everyone else exists to serve his needs. With his level of talent, he may go far, but someone may take his head of someday as well.

After reading all the comments I think it warrants a discussion next time he brings it up and I am just going to say back off, I got this.

Perhaps this is the only response left. It's certainly not the first thing I would recommend. But if you have already gone to extraordinary means to try and appease him, as you suggest in this post, then eventually it's going to get to this point. It's usually best if you make an effort to change the dynamics before you get to the point of losing self-control. Not always easy to find a workable solution though.

Since this situation involves family, I suggest you put some serious effort into the potential fallout of being so blunt and rigid. Is there anyway you can handle this without risking the relationship. Can you make the point without putting up a wall and becoming totally closed off?

The other factor is how do you think he will respond if you totally go off. Maybe this is exactly what he needs to get it. Or maybe it will destroy the relationship. I don't know the guy, so I don't have the answer.

Good luck!

 

[BigJohnAZ]

Only once.

Once.

 

[aprod]

He should have his own groove but it's true he might not be hearing the bass well enough. Might be an EQ thing.

I'm referring to working as a unit. I play drums as well. I played with one of my bass students and all I was getting was mud, all bass. I showed him how to eq his amp( cut bass, boost mids) and problem solved.

 

[shnapper]

A possible solution to this is to switch instruments for 30 minutes. Take his sticks and hand him your bass. It’s not only a learning experience but can be a whole new point of view from the both of you

 

[dkelley]

Sounds like his bass drum is out of tune. Also his bass drum has too much presence but not enough around 50Hz. You know you're right because other drummers don't have that problem, so it's got to be his playing and his gear.

I wonder how THAT would go down for him if you kept it up every week?

 

[BlueTalon]

I've played for almost 50 years myself. Never had a "suggestion" made about my volume, tone or style in any of the several bands I've been a part of....until this last one: Both the lead guitarist and the drummer have repeatedly told me that "We are NOT going to be a bass heavy band"...

The band is a power trio. ZZ, Who, Trower, Aerosmith, Montrose, etc., etc., etc....NOT a bass-heavy band? How do they figure?

Apparently it's not a power trio. It's just a trio.

 

[JimmyM]

Normal in my world.

A lot of the musicians I play with are actually pretty good bassists in their own right, and I welcome their input into my tone, technique, and note choice. I've actually had drummers (at rehearsal, not at gigs!) ask, "hey can I borrow your bass a minute and show you something?" and sometimes the alternate bass line they come up with, is in fact, better than what I was playing originally (if we're being honest). There is one drummer I worked with, whose standard operating procedure, when he "learns a song" is to learn every note played by every instrument (not just the drum part) and let me tell you: he was an absolute delight to play live with.

Maybe it's a Boston/Berklee thing, but I know hardly any musicians who only play one instrument, and who strictly "stay in their lane" of that one instrument.

But hey: If I didn't value their opinion, I wouldn't be in a band with them. And for what it's worth, it's a two way street: I can play just enough drums (and guitar, and keyboard, and vocals...) that I can give meaningful suggestions to the drummer, if I have an idea.

Same here, although I didn't go to Berklee.

 

[Yellow Bang66]

Drummers. Just.

Anyway, I'm just looking for support or maybe to just whine like a baby, but I love my drummer. He's my brother in law, great dude great player. But for the two years we've played together he is constantly (at least once or twice a practice, and at gigs...) commenting on my tone and how I should do this or do that. Now to be fair in those two years I have switched things up a bit, but always on my terms. I've played bass for 25 years. I've been working on it since the day I got one, and recently I have finally entered my happy place. I just want to be left alone. For reference, I am playing through a Peavey VB-2 and into a Bergantino NXT212. EQ set mostly flat, premp gain down power tube gain up. Using a P bass with a jazz at the bottom. Nothing crazy. But I've also used 4-5 other basses and those have never gotten a comment.

Do other drummers do this? Does it make you mental? I am being too sensitive, or is this something that maybe the guy slapping stuff with sticks should not comment on? Anyway, felt good just to write it out. I just really want to be left alone in the pocket and focus on what's important.

Really it's just annoying and I was looking to see if this was an overall drummer thing or just this drummer thing, or maybe it's a me thing. Who knows.

My take is: I Think almost all Drummers are frustrated Musically! and have a fear of being left out of the music writing credits or just being replaced by a machine or program!!A lot of my past drummers, both loved & hated have added their 2¢ frequently! like either to show they are really listening to things,or to kissup a bit! 2 of my most hated or the ones I butted heads with have made it known or made it a point to say something not at the appropriate time, just out of the Blue!kind of like "who asked you?" STFU!! even if it was a compliment! the 2 worst guys really reminded me of Lars of Metallica, He seems to me to be overly involved or throwing his2¢ in at any opportunity! Like hey, "look at me & what I just said, I'm contributing!" "Man STFU!" Worst guy was the last, the defacto BL, he was delusional, Stubborn & opinionated! An A- Hole recipe! he had to say something about every little thing! + he was a know it all! He'd always butt in every conversation, "heres 2¢" Ugh 1 I wanted to slap his stupid face! My BFF is probably the best, but he'll only chime in when needed or asked! I noticed he does the Look I'm contributing thing too, once volunteered to write lyrics (which were horrible) for a couple of orginal tunes we put together! not real bad,just cringey,& juvenile. He got a lil hurt when band rejected & asked for a rewrite. Its just something we gotta put up with! the over compensating non musician!

2nd worst drummer/Lars wannabe, was in a hair metal band,in the 80's, he wasnt any good. Played weird off beats, & got mad when I didnt follow his "funky" beats, and would love to tell how to move or dance when we rehearsed! It was really dumb!He would jump around & kick like david lee roth! He got in my face once, after I remarked how stupid he was! and everyone was laughing at him!And he finally realized what a D* hole he was being!! My friends admired my self restraint while I was in this band! a very short run!Try not to focus on it & let it roll off like duck feathers!GL

 

[LBS-bass]

I also do enjoy feedback, I like talking to people in band about what they need and want. But when you do that and the shell moves every week it's like *** do you want from me.

After reading this post, I'm starting to think you're dealing with someone who has a bit of gig neurosis. I don't know what you'd call it, really, but I've worked with people who get so worked up with nervousness about a show that they will hyperfocus on everything that's happening while worrying constantly about audience reaction, and everything happening is a potential disaster. These may or may not be the same people who can't play well under pressure, but they sure do make it impossible to have any fun on stage.

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

He most likely has a different taste in bass tone then you and I get that it is off putting if you don't enjoy the sound you hear. I personally have a hard time with guitar players on this as I favor different sounds then most of the guys I've jammed with and some of them are good players but don't really understand their gear or how to dial it in so I've made suggestions but most of the time I just let my lead singer handle it as he is also a audio engineer and killer player. I have made changes based on suggestions by the band so I don't feel bad expecting the same level of respect when I have input on the sound.

 

[Zbysek]

Do other drummers do this?

No...most of them don't.

 

[Wesley R]

Try complimenting him before he comments on your tone.

My brother in-law is a spectacular drummer and can sign very well. I flat out guarantee that he would be the biggest problem in any band . No gig is ever worthy of his talents, none ever period.

 

[Richard I]

[...]
But for the two years we've played together he is constantly (at least once or twice a practice, and at gigs...) commenting on my tone and how I should do this or do that.
[...]

Do other drummers do this? Does it make you mental? I am being too sensitive, or is this something that maybe the guy slapping stuff with sticks should not comment on? Anyway, felt good just to write it out. I just really want to be left alone in the pocket and focus on what's important.

Really it's just annoying and I was looking to see if this was an overall drummer thing or just this drummer thing, or maybe it's a me thing. Who knows.

I only experienced this once. That particular drummer kinda disliked my tone (during various rehearsals, playing through an Ampeg 810 and a GK RB1001-II. He always had to say something, my SR Classic to him sounded “too big”, the P was “woody” and the Jazz “too thin”).

Aside that, any drummer has never complained about /commented my tone. Only appreciation for it, and for my groove.

 

[MotorCityMinion]

There is nothing wrong with somebody critiquing the tone or gear that somebody else in the band uses as long as it advances the band as a whole. Same with how a tune is played. I invite it as I can get caught up in my own bubble too easily.

 

[fishdude101101]

Does anyone else share his views? If so, may you need to listen. If not, tell him to drop it. Not his business.

I've never had any comments from anyone other than an occasional "great tone man" from an audience member bassist.

This is what I was thinking. Usually if people don't like your tone they won't say anything, but if I read correctly the drummer is the brother in law, so there is a comfort level there to voice opinions that may not exist otherwise.

Having said that, there are plenty of people who have a specific tone that they love but others not so much even if they don't say so directly. For example, I've never met a guitar player, drummer, or singer outside of the metal crowd that actually likes overdriven bass. But lots of bass players love "just a little grit"

 

[lug]

Make sure he carries plenty of life insurance so you won't have to financially support your sister after cutting the brake lines on his car.

 

[Stewie]

I recently acquired a really nice older speaker cab, my friend, the best drummer I’ve ever played with, smiled when he heard it . Does that count?

 

[Michael Milner]

Drummers. Just.

Anyway, I'm just looking for support or maybe to just whine like a baby, but I love my drummer. He's my brother in law, great dude great player. But for the two years we've played together he is constantly (at least once or twice a practice, and at gigs...) commenting on my tone and how I should do this or do that. Now to be fair in those two years I have switched things up a bit, but always on my terms. I've played bass for 25 years. I've been working on it since the day I got one, and recently I have finally entered my happy place. I just want to be left alone. For reference, I am playing through a Peavey VB-2 and into a Bergantino NXT212. EQ set mostly flat, premp gain down power tube gain up. Using a P bass with a jazz at the bottom. Nothing crazy. But I've also used 4-5 other basses and those have never gotten a comment.

Do other drummers do this? Does it make you mental? I am being too sensitive, or is this something that maybe the guy slapping stuff with sticks should not comment on? Anyway, felt good just to write it out. I just really want to be left alone in the pocket and focus on what's important.

Really it's just annoying and I was looking to see if this was an overall drummer thing or just this drummer thing, or maybe it's a me thing. Who knows.

When you say "tone", what does that mean? Does he think you are too bright, too dark, etc. To hear what the bass sounds like, you have to be out front. The drummer is not hearing what everyone else is, over the sound of the drums. I have had drummers ask me to turn up, turn down, add this or add that. I usually like to be on the side of the kit where the high hat is.

 

[39-Bassist]

Personally (because I dealt with this before.) I would step back from the issue and take a recording device and record a practice.
Then listen to how well the drums and bass blend together. Then see if you and band actually like the overall sound. You may actually find you want to tweak your EQ or that maybe the snare or toms need tweaked. Just some thing else to try.
Not really an easy "do this answer" since not there.
Have a great day though!