• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Just bought a "new" amp! Fender 400PS

Rumblefisher

Rumblefisher

Supporting Member
Aug 22, 2007
4,961
4,117
#1
Hey TB. Like the title says, I just bought a 400PS for $700. The guts are in excellent condition, everything original and functional (save for the microphonic GE 6550 tubes...but hey, this is a 40 year old amp we are talking about, and those are going to get changed...preferably to a matched set of GE 6550s).

So here's the deal...I am sending the amp to Mr. Rich Koerner over at Time Electronics, as he is an absolute expert in bass amplification, particularly the 400PS. He is going to, as he puts it, "spruce up the circuitry" so that this 435 watt amp puts out 550+ watts RMS...nice. He also said he is going to expand the top end and low end that the dial can control...also cool.

However, the chassis of the amp is not in the greatest of shape. It has accumulated nicks and bruises over the years, has faded spots, and a few scrapes. My question is: should I leave it be or should I ask Mr. Koerner to refurbish it to brand new status? (as he has said he is able and willing to do)

I'm not a collector, I don't plan on selling this amp, and since he will change what was once the original circuitry, does it even matter if the chassis is different? I'm interested in hearing people's take on this. Thanks in advance, TB continues to rock and/or roll! :p
 
#2
Wow....nice find man...I have been looking for one of those for a looong time. I think personally I'd leave the cosmetics alone, I don't think it detracts in any way from the amps mojo. I am curious as to how he will boost the output that high and what hell are you going to do with 750 watts of tube power....good god......stock those amps are hella loud.
 
#5
metron said:
This seems odd. Any idea how that is possible without chaining 2 400PS amps together? ;) Maybe he said peak instead of RMS.
Click to expand...

Nope, RMS. I've spoken to him many many times and last week made the trip out to his workshop. He played his 400PS (same mods) from 3 1x15 cabs stacked one on top of another and told me to stand in front of them...he tuned his bass down and played a little...I could barely take it, and I actually ended up throwing up, haha. Low frequencies and high volume will do that to ya!
 
#6
How much is your swami charging for these miracles?
CFclef said:
Hey TB. Like the title says, I just bought a 400PS for $700. The guts are in excellent condition, everything original and functional (save for the microphonic GE 6550 tubes...but hey, this is a 40 year old amp we are talking about, and those are going to get changed...preferably to a matched set of GE 6550s).

So here's the deal...I am sending the amp to Mr. Rich Koerner over at Time Electronics, as he is an absolute expert in bass amplification, particularly the 400PS. He is going to, as he puts it, "spruce up the circuitry" so that this 435 watt amp puts out 750+ watts RMS...nice. He also said he is going to expand the top end and low end that the dial can control...also cool.

However, the chassis of the amp is not in the greatest of shape. It has accumulated nicks and bruises over the years, has faded spots, and a few scrapes. My question is: should I leave it be or should I ask Mr. Koerner to refurbish it to brand new status? (as he has said he is able and willing to do)

I'm not a collector, I don't plan on selling this amp, and since he will change what was once the original circuitry, does it even matter if the chassis is different? I'm interested in hearing people's take on this. Thanks in advance, TB continues to rock and/or roll! :p
Click to expand...
 
#7
You guys REALLY don't think he can do it?

He's a very nice man, and I believe him to be a stand-up one too. He's been building and rebuilding amps for over 40 years, and he's been in music for close to 60...exclusively bass and bass amps/cabs. He is going to give me an itemized list soon, but for refurbishing the 400PS, changing the chassis, acquiring and putting in new tubes, and having 3 cabs built, JBLs bought and put in...something like $2000. I think that's pretty fair though.
 
#8
So he is going to replace the transformers? You'll also probably start running into problems trying to run it on a regular household circuit :p

Sorry, don't believe it at all. The 400PS was pretty notorious for melting tubes, let alone if you were trying to almost double the power outage.

Also, even if it is possible, you'll be getting less than 3dB more out of it. So maybe not worth while dropping that much coin?
 
#9
i_got_a_mohawk said:
So he is going to replace the transformers? You'll also probably start running into problems trying to run it on a regular household circuit :p

Sorry, don't believe it at all. The 400PS was pretty notorious for melting tubes, let alone if you were trying to almost double the power outage.

Also, even if it is possible, you'll be getting less than 3dB more out of it. So maybe not worth while dropping that much coin?
Click to expand...

Yeah, good call. But the price isn't really all about the mods...its a hell of a lot more about the refurbishing, the building of cabs, and the purchase of some nice speakers. Whether he can or can't, I trust him, and even if he does nothing, 435 watts is PLENTY freakin loud as it is. As for the transformers, he won't change them, but he did say something about sending more power from them, as Fender was pretty conservative in their power rating. The 400 melts tubes if they are the wrong kinda tube :)
 
#10
KPAX said:
How much is your swami charging for these miracles?
Click to expand...

I read this comment a few times. Instead of being annoyed, I went back through 6 months' worth of emails to make sure your disbelief was founded. Well, it was MY mistake...he said 550, not 750. 550. It's been changed in the original post, so thanks for that.
 
#13
550 seems much more doable. Man at that kind of output I think I would be a little bit scared of that amp! :D Once you get it taken care of it's going to be killer. I would love to try the 400PS out someday. :bassist:

Cosmetically I would leave it the way it is unless you have the cash and time and really want to do it. The only thing I would fix cosmetically would be if large chunks of tolex are falling off or really rusty parts.
 
#14
metron said:
550 seems much more doable. Man at that kind of output I think I would be a little bit scared of that amp! :D Once you get it taken care of it's going to be killer. I would love to try the 400PS out someday. :bassist:

Cosmetically I would leave it the way it is unless you have the cash and time and really want to do it. The only thing I would fix cosmetically would be if large chunks of tolex are falling off or really rusty parts.
Click to expand...

Cool. Thankfully it has neither. It is in excellent condition considering its 40 yrs old. No tears in the tolex. Just scrapes, and a lot of dust. The metal grill has oxidized a little, not rusted. And the grill cloth has light staining b/c its so old.

Honestly the hardest part now is finding 15" speakers to get as much out of it as I can. Mr. Koerner wants to use JBL K130, but they are impossible to find in 4ohms and usable condition. Any suggestions? I'm thinking of Eminence Commonwealth.
 
#16
You're going to drop $2k on a 400PS project?
Ok, keep us posted. It certainly sounds entertaining.
I'll just put these reality check questions out there. Take them or leave them.
You've played through the amp already - right?
If so, do you like the sound?
If so, why are you going to have this guy widen the frequency response of the tone circuit? That could change the tone. If the 400PS is so good, why change the preamp?
Do you need more power? If not, why pay this guy to do even more mods? If the 400PS is so powerful, why change the power amp?
Is he going to build the original folded-horn type cabs? If so, are those the type cabs you like playing through?
Have you played through the type cabs he's going to build for you?


CFclef said:
You guys REALLY don't think he can do it?

He's a very nice man, and I believe him to be a stand-up one too. He's been building and rebuilding amps for over 40 years, and he's been in music for close to 60...exclusively bass and bass amps/cabs. He is going to give me an itemized list soon, but for refurbishing the 400PS, changing the chassis, acquiring and putting in new tubes, and having 3 cabs built, JBLs bought and put in...something like $2000. I think that's pretty fair though.
Click to expand...
 
#18
KPAX said:
You're going to drop $2k on a 400PS project?
Ok, keep us posted. It certainly sounds entertaining.
I'll just put these reality check questions out there. Take them or leave them.
You've played through the amp already - right?
If so, do you like the sound?
If so, why are you going to have this guy widen the frequency response of the tone circuit? That could change the tone. If the 400PS is so good, why change the preamp?
Do you need more power? If not, why pay this guy to do even more mods? If the 400PS is so powerful, why change the power amp?
Is he going to build the original folded-horn type cabs? If so, are those the type cabs you like playing through?
Have you played through the type cabs he's going to build for you?
Click to expand...

All great points. Yes, I have played through it, and it sounds excellent. I love it. I didn't think that widening the frequency would change the tone, just add to it, so I'll ask him about that. The cabs are going to be same specs as the Sunn 2000S, just cut in half. Not changing anything else other than the tubes. GE 6550s are crazy expensive though, so I'll probably have him put SED Winged C's in there. All in all, this will actually cost me less than the Mesa 400+ I sold to fund the project (plus I wasn't totally happy with it).
 
#20
Based on his rep, his web site, and his comments over the years in the Yahoo group, I don't doubt he can do it. He can also make the chassis look beautiful. Personally I wouldn't bother with cosmetics, especially on a chassis which will not be seen once the head's assembled. It's your money though. His pics of spiffed up chassis look nice, they remind me of cars with shiny chrome engines.

$2000 is actually a lot less than I would have imagined for all of that. The tubes alone can run you $100 each. Please post the details once you get the itemized list -- or at least PM me! I have one I bought on Ebay (foolishly) that never worked, I'd love to get it running. A thread on the 400PS is one of the few things that can draw me out of the woodwork around here lately. They were never popular, and now more than ever go against the accepted Talkbass Wisdom; the 400PS draws snide comments on this forum more than any other amp..

I do wonder a bit about the need for mods, though I'm equally intrigued. I couldn't imagine needing more power, and I've got terrifying low end and bright highs already. I've never run out of headroom that I've noticed. It's just about impossible to get it to distort, at least for me, my amp, and the conditions I use it under. My main 400PS has been going strong for several years with the same set of JJKT88s. I'd be concerned the mod would put more stress on the power tubes, so that even the few modern tubes that work in stock 400PS amps wouldn't stand up to it. I gather the GE is a superior tube, and I know Rich loves them, but I'd hate to be locked in to using just that tube forever - they aren't getting any easier to find.

You've heard Rich's modded amp and his cabs, and loved it - by all means spend your money to get the rig you want. I would love to get my rig side by side with yours after Rich is done and compare them. I actually prefer this amp with more modern enclosures, since I use it for its "hi-fi" tubiness with a downtuned 5 string. I haven't heard the original 400PS cabs, but cabs from that era generally don't have the bass response modern cabs can get. Old cabs often sound great, but the amp can put out more low end than a lot of cabinets seem happy with. I doubt personally I'd find Rich's expanded low end worked well with the old JBL, but you probably won't have a low A to deal with.

Congratulations on a fine amp, and please keep us up to date. If things get too nasty in the thread, I'd love it if you'd PM me as the project goes along. Especially interested in his itemized pricing list and of course the final results. I'll admit that just because I couldn't imagine the amp sounding better doesn't mean he can't make it sound better. Being locked into GE 6550A tubes would still scare me though. Rich mentioned some time ago in the Yahoo group

> > With respect to KT-88's, the best of the lot is the RI Gold Lion so far.
> >
> > I've run them in a few non 400 amps, and they, in initial testing, make
> > amplifier rated spec in a Marshall Major 200 watt. For how long???????
> >
> > In the next weeks, I will be testing them in an Ampeg SVT, and a 400.
> > After that, I will have something to say Gold Lion KT-88's in an SVT
> & 400.
Click to expand...

It would be great if he has had the time to test this tube in the PS.

Sorry for the rambling post. Great amp, keep us updated please!
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back