Double Bass Just don't sound good

[Malten]

Hello fellow bassists! I am a young, mainly classical bass player. But I also play plenty of rythmic music especially on electric bass, but also a bit on my upright.

So, the thing is that amplification is beginning to be necessary at some gigs. Some time ago I bought a piezo pick-up - a Planet Wing. I plugged in my amp and the sound was just horrible to be honest. Very nasal and trebly. I bought a cheap pre-amp which was no good and have now bought a Fishmann Platinum Pro after reading about it. The sound got better, but it still doesn't sound good. I've been trying to tweak around with the EQ, but nothing really seems to do the job.

The only amp I have at home currently is the small, but efficient Phillip Jones Bass Cub. But I have tried the pick-up on other amps and a PA system on the music school where I study.

Nothing really works and I'm starting to get a bit frustrated with it and wondering if the pick-up is broken, if I mount it wrong or make some other mistake somewhere along the way, or if amplifying a double bass i just damn diffucult and I should try some other pick-ups or mic's.

I have read some of the threads on here, but to be honest it's quiet diffucult to find just what I'm looking for. So, bare with my by making this new thread.

 

[playbass0410]

You are right - double bass amplification is damn difficult.

a) For the Phill Jones amps normally no extra pream is required
b) Personally I have had bad experiences with the Platinum Pro. Purchased it as it was praised in the forums but it made my sound bony and nasal regardless of the EQ settings. So finally it went to ebay and I'm now using a D-TAR EQUINOX para eq - a silver bullet IMHO.
c) It is crucial on HOW the pickup piece fits into your bridge - too tight fitting may makes your sound nasal - so perhaps vary the position and fitting
d) Of course a picked-up bass will never sound like the original. Miking it gives more natural results but more feedback
e) you cannot expect to get a deep bass tone from the Bass Club
f) for the most double bassists sound is a lifetime search....

 

[Ric Vice]

So, the thing is that amplification is beginning to be necessary at some gigs. Some time ago I bought a piezo pick-up - a Planet Wing. .........bought a Fishmann Platinum Pro after reading about it. The sound got better, but it still doesn't sound good. I've been trying to tweak around with the EQ, but nothing really seems to do the job.

Malten
I hear your frustration, but believe me pickups have improved exponentially over the past 10 years. Since I assume that you like the sound of your bass without an amp. then next point in your transmission line is the pickup. I've never used the Planet Wing, but I suspect that's the thing that you should look at switching out first.

The only amp I have at home currently is the small, but efficient Phillip Jones Bass Cub. But I have tried the pick-up on other amps and a PA system on the music school where I study.

The PJB Bass cub sounds really good for an amp it's size!

Nothing really works and I'm starting to get a bit frustrated with it and wondering if the pick-up is broken, if I mounted it wrong or made some other mistake somewhere along the way, or if amplifying a double bass i just damn diffucult and I should try some other pick-ups or mic's.

The Realist and the Fishman Full Circle are the pickups that appear most often on these threads.

I have read some of the threads on here, but to be honest it's quiet diffucult to find just what I'm looking for. So, bare with me for creating this new thread.

That's what were all here for.

Ric

 

[AMJBASS]

Different basses respond differently with different pickups(in a nutshell). My current bass sounds great with a wing mounted pickup, but I have had several that didnt sound good with one. I would really recommend a Realist pickup. Its one of the easiest to install and get a great sound with quickly. The Fishman full circle is my favorite Piezo, but you generally need to have a luthier install it unless you have bridge adjusters and are comfortable pulling your bass apart.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Hello fellow bassists! I am a young, mainly classical bass player. But I also play plenty of rythmic music especially on electric bass, but also a bit on my upright.

Malten,
You've gotten some good advice regarding the hardware involved in getting a good amplified sound. Have you had any lessons from a jazz player to evaluate your pizz technique? Forgive me, if you have. I don't want to offend you in any way but it's been my experience that many young players coming from electric bass simply don't know how to pull a big sound out of the DB. It's something I struggled with at the beginning.
My advice to you is to concentrate on getting your pizz approach down before investing significantly in equipment.
If your instrument is a good sounding intermediate level or better bass, consider a Realist straight into your current amp and work with that.

Start this video at 2:30:


YOU make the sound. Don't forget it.

 

[Roger Mouton]

Somewhere else on this Forum was a Planet Wing discussion. I can't seem to find it now but I stumbled on this thread. In a mood to experiment recently I put a Planet Wing pick up on my carved German factory bass playing jazz through a Clarus III and Epifani 110 cab. I can't get what I want (even sound) out of it.

Playing? The low end is monstrous, clean and clear. Huge sound! I described it to our guitarist as "it's pushing some serious air." That's what it feels like to me. Mids and highs are either weak or hollow however. On some notes there was a real ring to the tone, almost like the pick up was very "microphonic" and close to feeding back. I had read somewhere that if there's a tweeter on the cab, shut it off. It seems to make no difference. Some have used the term nasal to describe certain pick ups or sounds. I don't know if this is "nasal" but whatever it is, it's definitely not desirable in mid to upper register.

Enter Headway EDB-1. I haven't yet fooled with the notch filter but none of the EQ setting changes made much difference. I had dragged this particular bass out because it hasn't been played in awhile. I believe the p/u is installed correctly. Killer low end! KILLER, but I stayed around the bottom end when playing last night and that gets old.

Apologies if this post gets another pick up thread going. I know how it can excite the gear heads. I'm going to go back to Barry Kolstein's site to do a little more research on this p/u before I give up. FDeck might have something for me to try as well.

 

[Mandobassman]

You may want to consider using a mic. I have never been satisfied with the sound from a pickup and asked here on Talk Bass about using a mic into a bass amp and found the answer I was looking for.

Here is the thread. My answer was found in post #11. Several questions and responses later I had a very inexpensive setup that still sounds great a year and a half later. If you read through the thread you will find that it didn't work for everyone that tried it, but quite a few loved the results just as I have.

 

[Ric Vice]

Roger,
As I have three years of experience using the Headway EDB-1, I'd say if you can't EQ the Planet Waves with the Headway's 5 Band EQ, then something's possibly amiss with the pickup, or it's installation. Have you tried using a different pickup on your bass to rule that out? Hopefully it's just seated wrong or there's a bad connection. Since there are some similarities between the Planet Waves and a Wilson, I seem to remember that the elements on that pickup could work themselves out of their holes in the bridge, and wreck havoc with both the sound and output from that pickup. If that's not the problem, I'd also check the batteries in the EDB-1

Ric

 

[Roger Mouton]

Ric,

Thanks for the feedback. Just so we're comparing the same pick up, you mention Planet Wave. I'm talking Planet Wing. I think there is a Planet Wave pick up however. If my memory is right, the Planet Wave is mounted in the bridge foot structure on the bass side. I'll look that one up to be sure.

As for your recommendations re: Planet Wing (assuming you meant Planet Wing and not Planet Wave), it's fairly simple to install if the bridge wing slot is large enough. I've got mine shimmed a little to keep it tight enough to stay in the slot. It doesn't seem to move on its own but I can move it easily by hand. I guess I could always squeeze it a little more with a thicker shim to see if the sound is different. I was thinking that squeezing it too much might compromise the integrity of the piezo itself.

Thanks again for your post and more important, your input re: the recent EDB-2 introduction. The EDB is a great tool.

 

[Roger Mouton]

OK, I checked Jonas Lohse's page. Planet Pick Ups makes a Planet Wing and a Planet Plug. Barry Kolstein sells the Planet Wing. The Plug is one that I described in my previous post thinking it might be the Planet Wave you mentioned. There apparently are no Planet Wave pick ups.

The Planet Plug appears to be a round wood plug, presumably with a piezo of some sort in it. The area above the bridge foot must be drilled and the plug inserted, similar to how the Wilson elements are inserted. It would seem to preclude the use of bridge adjusters.

 

[Ric Vice]

Roger,
Well, that rules out the possibility of it being loose in it's socket, but bridge wings can slip, move, or just not work well on a
particular bridge. One possibility is that the inside of the bridge is rounded, instead of being flat, opposite the flat side of the wing. I'd try it on a different bass to see it works in a flatter wing slot.

Ric

 

[The Celestials]

Frankenthread has returned!!!

 

[Ric Vice]

Frankenthread has returned!!!

Hello,
Love the costume, love the holiday, but let's wait a few weeks. Halloween isn't traditionally celebrated until the 31st of October, with the Day of the Dead right after. I hate going into Walgreens and seeing costumes and candy in August.



Ric

 

[The Celestials]

Hello,
Love the costume, love the holiday, but let's wait a few weeks. Halloween isn't traditionally celebrated until the 31st of October, with the Day of the Dead right after. I hate going into Walgreens and seeing costumes and candy in August.



Ric

As a teenager, I work at a grocery store when Im not at school, and i walked in one random August day and a giant frankenstein robot monster thingy went "ROOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAARRRRRR!!!!" when I walked past and set off the motion sensor. Scared the sheisse out of me.

 

[BawanaRik]

People spend 20K to get good sounding bass. then wonder why a 100 dollar pick sound like the dd word.

I personally am not sure a good bass is designed to be amplified.
But if you're gonna get an AY large diapharm mic and get a real amp. The pj I've never heard anything about hitting you in the gut.

 

[Ric Vice]

People spend 20K to get good sounding bass. then wonder why a 100 dollar pick sound like the dd word.

I personally am not sure a good bass is designed to be amplified. But if you're gonna get an AY large diapharm mic and get a real amp. The pj I've never heard anything about hitting you in the gut.

Bawana Rick,
I've certainly heard bigger instruments that sounded much better un amplified, then they did with a pickup. From my experience, there are 1/2 and 3/4 size basses that get a better sound when you use a transducer. It's also true that some less expensive piezo's, do not faithfully reproduce the timbre of a Double Bass.

While it's not always the case, a mid priced pickup usually sounds better than the inexpensive ones. Of course, I'm not sure that the really expensive ones sound that much better than pickups like the Full Circle or Realist et al. I prefer the Ehrlund EAP, it works beautifully on my instruments. Fortunately, I got mine, before Goran Ehrlund changed distributors, and the price went up significantly. The best microphone I've heard is the Schoeps.

Ric