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Just finished reading Jack Bruce's autobiography.

thebeerleader

thebeerleader

Guest
Feb 10, 2012
29
16
Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
#1
I'd have to say that I didn't know much about what he had done since his days with cream, but I ended up finding an old record called, "Jack Bruce, At His Best" and I couldn't believe that something that incredible had so far eluded me. I ended up getting the book to find out what else he had been up to, and now I'm starting to listen to guys like Mingus because of him.
You've got to love the way Jack can make a bassline that stands out and fits in so perfectly at the same time.
 
#2
Last night I watched a documentary called " Beware Mr. Baker". It was basically a film about the life of Ginger. Ginger had a lot to say about Jack, most of it not that fondly remembering him. Jack had nothing but nice stuff to say about Ginger really. They are both well up there these days.

Anyway, it was a pretty cool film and I highly recommend it to any Cream fans.
 
#4
mntngrown said:
Baker is very capable of being critical of other musicians.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...


He wasn't critical of his musical ability. He was critical of him taking jams that he (Ginger) and Clapton started, putting words to them and then taking all the royalties. He also claims that a few of the songs Bruce wrote in complete different time signatures and the songs were pretty well crap, until Ginger rearranged them and they became monsters ( White Room for example). Bruce does not dispute this, however, Baker still receives no royalties. To a man, everyone interviewed in that film, including Bruce, Clapton, Winwood, Neil Peart, Lars Ulrich an on and on and on, Places Ginger in a class above everyone else, like Bonham or Moon. Clapton damn near choked on the question. He said something to the effect of " God no, Ginger was nothing like those players. Ginger had the gift, he could see music, arrange music and had perfect time. He was a fully developed musician, not just some drummer". Even his son, whom Ginger has treated like complete crap and hasn't talked to years says he is one of the greatest drummers to ever live.
His beefs with Bruce rarely had anything to do with his musical ability or skill as a player. He once pulled a knife on Jack, I think over Jack playing bass along with one of his drum solos. Ginger is a nutbag for sure. He got like 5 mil for that Cream reunion a few years back. Blew every penny on polo horses, which he was later forced to sell, along with his farm in S. Africa. As of the time this film was recorded he was dead broke.
 
#7
Jack was difficult, Ginger was impossible. At one point he was the greatest drummer on the planet and he couldn't get anyone to play with him. When he turned up at a Blind Faith rehearsal, naturally assuming he was the drummer, Clapton was horrified. By the end of that tour Ginger was so drugged out he had to go off to " Get Straight". When he returned, the band had simply ended without his knowing about it at all.



Man, Jack was a bad ass though wasn't he?
 
#8
That was my point. I did not see the special, but I did come across a youtube interview, where he refered to Bruce as "wee jack", thus resorting to physical characteristics to slam a fellow band member. Reminded me of Richards commenting on Jager's package. Childish.
I am sure he was a major contributor to Cream's songs and got no royalties, just like Bill Wyman on the bass side, with Stones.
I like to tell folks about the Downbeat magazine interview I read. Elvin Jones was at the time (1970 or so), so give me slack here, the leader of his own band and a highly regarded jazz drummer. The downbeat interviewer played a Who cut for Jones, and he replied something like ..Did you hear how the band was getting off time there, and he made em all come right back. That's a good drummer. (referring to K.Moon).
The interviewer played a cream song next and Jones said "They ought to make that guy an astronaut and lose his ass", or words similar. Within the next few weeks Baker issued a challenge for a drum off to settle. This thread is motivating me to search for articles on that drum contest. One of the drummers I play with says Baker is his favorite. I guess you need a big ego to be a drummer.;)
 
#9
I remember a Cream concert I attended in the late '60's (Swing auditorium San Bernardino). The power went out in the middle of "Train Time" and Jack's voice was so strong that you could hear it clearly without PA. They were all such amazing musicians at the time that overall sound was monstrous. It was a lot like a bar brawl combined with near perfect musicianship.
That was an amazing concert that I will never forget and the likes of Cream will never happen again!!
 
#10
Baker no doubt would slay Moon in a drum battle. Ginger used to do drum battles with all the jazz greats. And they all held him in high regard as a peer. Strange enough for jazz guys to consider Ginger Baker a peer, but they really had no choice.

Baker claimed in several interviews that Cream ended because Jack was "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide". Baker and Clapton both made reference to Jack turning his amps up so loud that A) Baker suffered hearing loss after the first tour and B) Clapton at one point stopped playing and neither Baker nor Bruce noticed.

While Bruce was keen to do more Cream shows after the 2005 reunion concerts, Baker said hell no. Jack was Mr. Hyde in NY and had screamed at him on stage and Cream would never play together again. Clapton wasn't interested either.
 
#11
You don't need a big ego to be a drummer (or anything else, for that mater). Everything I've ever read about Ginger Baker - or heard from his own lips - illustrates that the guy is an angry, misanthropic, bag full of crazy.

Brilliant drummer, but I don't think I'd want to know him.
 
#13
tubenutq5 said:
They were all such amazing musicians at the time that overall sound was monstrous. It was a lot like a bar brawl combined with near perfect musicianship.
Click to expand...
Well put! I would say that each of those three guys was a very talented musician, BUT. They often seemed to be playing "against" each other on stage rather than with each other. Townsend, Entwistle and Moon actually did listen to each other and I like their live ensemble playing better as a whole. Compared one-on-one (Clapton/Townsend, Bruce/Entwistle, Baker/Moon) they are very different from one another and everyone will have their preferences. I still think the Who Live At Leeds shows a 3-piece band doing something routinely that Cream only occasionally managed to do. And, no, I'm not a huge fan of the Who who feels they have to interject them into every thread.
 
#14
I love "Live at Leeds" too, but I think it's hard to compare the live Who and the live Cream because Bruce and Baker were much more jazz-oriented than Entwistle and Moon. As much as they sparred with each other, I think they were able to keep the thread of the music together. (As in the live "I'm So Glad.") A good point of reference might be the mid-'60s Miles Davis band, or even Ornette Coleman during the same time. Cream just took it farther out than the Who. Plus, Townshend really holds "Live at Leeds" together, guiding the other guys along. I love hearing Moon brilliantly follow his every gesture. It sounds to me as if the framework of the instrumental sections of "Live at Leeds" were structured by Townshend. Cream, on the other hand, completely improvised the comparable sections of their live material.
 
#15
Also... I've read Jack's book too. It's interesting that he comes across as a very sweet, humorous, nice guy in interviews, while his projects are always so short-lived. It might be simply that he's uncompromising, as well as restless and searching. (And his drug problem surely hampered him for years.) But it makes you think about Ginger's "Jekyll & Hyde" comment.
On the other hand, Ginger is a musical purist -- I think he would've liked Madison Square Garden to be the Village Vanguard -- and he has always seemed to unfairly resent Jack for acknowledging that they were on a bigger stage and singing and playing in a larger-than-life manner. There's a clip somewhere where Jack says something like, "Ginger says we were too loud. Of course we were loud. We had to be, for it to work."
 
#17
I was fortunate enough to see one of the Cream reunion gigs at Madison Square Garden. I still have to pinch myself that I was able to make that happen, because it's likely to never happen again.

If you've heard the recordings from the Royal Albert Hall for the first reunion shows, they sound a bit tame. Clapton notably so. I attributed that to the fact that they were on in years, and Jack was still likely recovering from a liver transplant.

When I saw the Garden show? It was a very different vibe. Clapton upped his game considerably, and I think he was doing some of the musical pushing onstage. Ginger sounded amazing. Especially on N.S.U. That was just fantastic! And he surprised the hell out of everyone by doing "Pressed rat & warthog". Jack was good, but that night he seemed to keep it a little reserved. Surprisingly, he seemed to play his Gibson EB-1 for most of the night. His singing was good, but he wasn't pushing it. I didn't get a sense of any arguments or yelling onstage. Perhaps that happened another night? But it was absolutely a memorable show.
 
#18
I think a lot of the animosity between Jack and Ginger stemmed from the fact that Ginger had fired Jack from the band they were in just prior to the formation of Cream.


For the life of me, I don't know why musicians cannot get along sometimes..........:D
 
#19
There's a documentary movie called, "Beware of Mr. Baker!" I think it explains the Jack Bruce, Ginger Baker dynamic perfectly. It is fascinating, and very good. My impression is that Ginger is a complete nutjob, although very creative, just impossible to get along with.
 
#20
Floyd Eye said:
Last night I watched a documentary called " Beware Mr. Baker". It was basically a film about the life of Ginger. Ginger had a lot to say about Jack, most of it not that fondly remembering him. Jack had nothing but nice stuff to say about Ginger really. They are both well up there these days.

Anyway, it was a pretty cool film and I highly recommend it to any Cream fans.
Click to expand...

The love Jack has for Ginger is legend.

It's quite possible that Ginger has the same affection but he has a hard time showing it.
 

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