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Just finished reading Jack Bruce's autobiography.

#42
When "Sunshine of Your Love" was a hit, they came through Sacramento, I saw them play. How I still have images of them up on stage is a mystery.
Anyway, not too many bassists were using Gibson EBO's or EB3's back then.
I always wondered how much different Cream's first two LPs (Fresh Cream and Disraeli Gears) would have sounded if Jack Bruce was using something like a P or J bass.
 
#43
Seem to recall a pic of Bruce with a Fender Baritone... or Bass 6... Early Cream days..maybe just a promo shot .

With WBL...he played Gibon EB [3?] bass through double Marshall Stack. Just like watching ' Cream' with different drums and lead..LOL.. Bruce's classic distorted tone throughout. His vocals were in top form too with W B L live..
 
#46
COBRARI said:
When "Sunshine of Your Love" was a hit, they came through Sacramento, I saw them play. How I still have images of them up on stage is a mystery.
Anyway, not too many bassists were using Gibson EBO's or EB3's back then.
I always wondered how much different Cream's first two LPs (Fresh Cream and Disraeli Gears) would have sounded if Jack Bruce was using something like a P or J bass.
Click to expand...

There are also photos of him in the studio during the "Disraeli Gears" period, holding a Danelectro.
 
#48
Yea... the satanic looking EB0/EB3 looked great but were not very good sounding.
I Knew nothing about basses back then but went and saw a group called "Moby Grape". The bass player was playing a white Fender Precision and I was instantly hooked by his sound. Bob Mosley was the bassist and that Fender roared big time.
If Jack Bruce had a Precision, I am sure it would have been different. Obviously the amplifier and settings have a lot to do with it also.
 
#49
Floyd Eye said:
Baker no doubt would slay Moon in a drum battle. Ginger used to do drum battles with all the jazz greats. And they all held him in high regard as a peer. Strange enough for jazz guys to consider Ginger Baker a peer, but they really had no choice.

Baker claimed in several interviews that Cream ended because Jack was "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide". Baker and Clapton both made reference to Jack turning his amps up so loud that A) Baker suffered hearing loss after the first tour and B) Clapton at one point stopped playing and neither Baker nor Bruce noticed.

While Bruce was keen to do more Cream shows after the 2005 reunion concerts, Baker said hell no. Jack was Mr. Hyde in NY and had screamed at him on stage and Cream would never play together again. Clapton wasn't interested either.
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I had the misfortune of seeing "Ginger Baker's Air Force" and left 25 minutes into Baker's "solo". As far as Baker being better than Moon - subjective at best. Personally, I don't believe that Baker could hold Moon's sticks -but again, subjective.

Baker thought the world of Baker. That is pretty much fact. Hell, I loved Cream. But they were destined to split up the day they formed....
 
#50
The distortion in Bruce's early sound was the result of the limitations of the gear at the time and him just overdriving them. But I seem to remember when amps got better some produces still wanted Bruce's distorted sound so he had a diode added to his basses to make them overdrive a bit. As always, I could be wrong.;)
 
#51
Buster Brown said:
I had the misfortune of seeing "Ginger Baker's Air Force" and left 25 minutes into Baker's "solo". As far as Baker being better than Moon - subjective at best. Personally, I don't believe that Baker could hold Moon's sticks -but again, subjective.

Baker thought the world of Baker. That is pretty much fact. Hell, I loved Cream. But they were destined to split up the day they formed....
Click to expand...


Yeah, everyone has bad nights. Especially raging alcoholic junkies. Everyone who ever played with Baker and pretty well most other musicians from that period disagree with you about Moon being better than Baker. Really it isn't subjective at all. Baker simply possessed much more skill as a percussionist than Keith Moon. Obviously you prefer Moon to Baker and THAT I can understand, but let's be realistic here.
 
#52
jerry said:
The distortion in Bruce's early sound was the result of the limitations of the gear at the time and him just overdriving them. But I seem to remember when amps got better some produces still wanted Bruce's distorted sound so he had a diode added to his basses to make them overdrive a bit. As always, I could be wrong.;)
Click to expand...

No, you're right!
I also remember being very disappointed by Jack's clean sound on "I've Always Wanted to Do This" (the early '80s album with Cobham, Sancious and Clemson). It was more painful than Clapton's switch from Gibson to Fender in 1970! :D
 
#53
Buster Brown said:
Personally, I don't believe that Baker could hold Moon's sticks -but again, subjective.
Click to expand...
+1

Some of you guys are really tripping me out...

I have never heard anything from either Baker or Bruce that made me think, "Wow! That's great! They've really got it!"

Could you please direct me to some examples of their best playing so that I can hear what I've been missing? I'd really appreciate it.
 
#54
Floyd Eye said:
Yeah, everyone has bad nights. Especially raging alcoholic junkies. Everyone who ever played with Baker and pretty well most other musicians from that period disagree with you about Moon being better than Baker. Really it isn't subjective at all. Baker simply possessed much more skill as a percussionist than Keith Moon. Obviously you prefer Moon to Baker and THAT I can understand, but let's be realistic here.
Click to expand...

+1
I LOVE Moon's playing. Not only the joy that came through, but his musicality and, yes, technique. He was fantastic. But over him, Mitchell, Bonham and everyone else of that time, Baker was the most skilled, thoroughly schooled, and most versatile guy, and I think any of them would say that now.
 
#55
Floyd Eye said:
Yeah, everyone has bad nights. Especially raging alcoholic junkies. Everyone who ever played with Baker and pretty well most other musicians from that period disagree with you about Moon being better than Baker. Really it isn't subjective at all. Baker simply possessed much more skill as a percussionist than Keith Moon. Obviously you prefer Moon to Baker and THAT I can understand, but let's be realistic here.
Click to expand...

I'm being as realistic as you are. ;)

I saw Cream twice. GBAF once. I wasn't impressed (regardless of him being a raging drunk and heroin addict). I saw The Who 4 times. I'll take Moon everyday, and I am a musician from that period.
 
#56
Since we are talking about drummers from that era, I'll through Ian Paices name out there too. I always though he was underrated and could rockout and swing at the same time. Cozy Powell too. I loved Keith Moon's playing, but I've always thought it was Townsend's guitar playing that grounded that band, another less rhythm orientated guitarist and the Who would have been a lot different band.
 
#57
Floyd Eye said:
Yeah, everyone has bad nights. Especially raging alcoholic junkies. Everyone who ever played with Baker and pretty well most other musicians from that period disagree with you about Moon being better than Baker. Really it isn't subjective at all. Baker simply possessed much more skill as a percussionist than Keith Moon. Obviously you prefer Moon to Baker and THAT I can understand, but let's be realistic here.
Click to expand...

Going to have to side with you Floyd.

I can give you one, major glaring reason why Baker simply destroys moon.

It's called a hi-hat.

Ginger Baker knows how to use one; Keith Moon never used on, on principal because it was "not loud enough".

Baker knows how to actually play, Moon was just a basher. A talented one, but a basher nonetheless.
 
#58
esa372 said:
+1

Some of you guys are really tripping me out...

I have never heard anything from either Baker or Bruce that made me think, "Wow! That's great! They've really got it!"

Could you please direct me to some examples of their best playing so that I can hear what I've been missing? I'd really appreciate it.
Click to expand...

Funny thing is, when I was like ~18 and just learning to play bass I could have given you 10-20 examples from studio and live work.

Now, as an adult ~15 years later I honestly cannot cite anything they did that was, in retrospect, actually groundbreaking when the other acts of the era are taken into consideration.

There are some good tunes, but in terms of technique or arrangement nothing is really that spectacular.

Other bands jammed better, in terms of quality of content, quantity of content and cohesion of content. The Dead, Mountain, Allmans, are all better jam bands. Honestly when you listen to a lot of Cream shows in a row you realize a lot of stuff wasn't truly improvised. They recycle sections quite often a la Zepplin's "improvisations".

Other bands wrote more ambitious material. None of the recorded JB bass lines are difficult by today's standards. Baker's drum parts aren't amazing either. Their groove is, well, like non existent in most cases because they weren't playing *with* each other really.

YMMV though I guess. They inspired me as a lad, and they inspired a ton of folks back in the day.
 
#59
jerry said:
Since we are talking about drummers from that era, I'll through Ian Paices name out there too. I always though he was underrated and could rockout and swing at the same time. Cozy Powell too. I loved Keith Moon's playing, but I've always thought it was Townsend's guitar playing that grounded that band, another less rhythm orientated guitarist and the Who would have been a lot different band.
Click to expand...

Paice is awesome, he and Glover really are terribly underrated. Machine Head was a major influence on my playing in my 20s.
 

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