Just finished reading Jack Bruce's autobiography.

[Buster Brown]

Paice is awesome, he and Glover really are terribly underrated. Machine Head was a major influence on my playing in my 20s.

Honestly, I would take Paice over both Moon and Baker. One of the most underrated drummers of the 60s and 70s.

 

[Aussie Player]

PAICE was very good. Exceptional, but not the equal of baker who pioneered the double kit and synthetic materials like perspex in the search for tone.

 

[DrayMiles]

I'm going to chime in on this, since I've actually played bass behind Jack. Pete Brown has spoken to me about their ongoing feud. I was supposed to play on record with Ginger, but when he found out Pete was producing it he refused to be a part. Ginger is IMO, mad because there are a few people who made more money off the the Cream than him.... That weren't in the band. I've heard stuff from Clem Clempson and Dick Heckstall Smith about those guys. Ginger did some outrageous stuff (like thowing his cymbals at Jack onstage, while his back was turned..) to Jack. I think Jack has more love for Ginger than vice versa...

In my humble opinion..

I've seen Hellborg and Lane freeze when I mentioned Ginger to them at a party. Mum's the word it seems. There is a lot of stuff that will never be mentioned by any of them in public, I think...

 

[Vince Klortho]

Just saw the film. I don't think I like that filmmaker much. Jersey Shore type yelling at a 73 year old man? Ginger wasn't perfect throughout the film, either. He basically went to Africa for drugs. They never say that in the film..but he was a hardcore addict, he was running out of cash...and Africa was plentiful and cheap.
The best bits are were Ginger talks about other drummers. Lars praises Cream...and Ginger knocks metal.

At one point he says, "the birth of heavy metal should have been aborted." I really laughed at that. I don't agree with it but I think it's hilarious.

 

[karl_em_all]

PAICE was very good. Exceptional, but not the equal of baker who pioneered the double kit and synthetic materials like perspex in the search for tone.

Actually, Paice IS really good not was. Saw Deep Purple last year and that guy is a machine.

Baker, Moon, and Paice ... you can split hairs talking about who was better. Buddy Rich was the king but he never would have 'lowered' himself to the level of rock drummer.

 

[dougjwray]

+1

Some of you guys are really tripping me out...

I have never heard anything from either Baker or Bruce that made me think, "Wow! That's great! They've really got it!"

Could you please direct me to some examples of their best playing so that I can hear what I've been missing? I'd really appreciate it.

There's so much to choose from, including Jack's many solo albums and collaborations, but I'll take a stab at it. "I'm So Glad" from Cream's "Goodbye" album. It's a good example of Cream in "brawling" mode, yet the interplay is 100% there, and they hold it all together brilliantly, even through all kinds of polyrhythms and even Jack's deliberate stepping out of key at one point.
Also: for what it's worth, every time I've seen an interview with Eddie Van Halen in which he's asked about his influences, he always puts Clapton at the top, and he always cites this very track.

 

[Rocker949]

I would add this. Crossroads, of course.

 

[esa372]

There are some good tunes, but in terms of technique or arrangement nothing is really that spectacular.

Other bands jammed better, in terms of quality of content, quantity of content and cohesion of content.

Their groove is, well, like non existent in most cases because they weren't playing *with* each other really.

That's how I've always heard them...

There's so much to choose from, including Jack's many solo albums and collaborations, but I'll take a stab at it.

Thanks for the suggestions. I checked them all out, but I still don't hear it. I guess it's just not my thing.

 

[Rocker949]

That's how I've always heard them...

Thanks for the suggestions. I checked them all out, but I still don't hear it. I guess it's just not my thing.

I'm not quite sure if I've found very much music that I've found that I like better than Cream's. If you have any suggestions of something that's even better, I'd be glad to listen. I do admit that in the songwriting department they weren't always stellar, but other than that, I think they were pretty good. One of the best 3-piece bands of all time, IMO.

 

[esa372]

I'm not quite sure if I've found very much music that I've found that I like better than Cream's. If you have any suggestions of something that's even better, I'd be glad to listen.

Nah - I don't want to get into a "Who's better than Cream?" debate. It's just that, for me, I have never heard anything from them that I would call "great".

That said, I dig what they did with Crossroads, I really like Badge (though, it's Harrison's influence that draws me in to that one), and I did enjoy watching the DVD of their re-union concert at the Royal Albert Hall... but overall, they just don't do it for me.

But, hey... who cares what I like, anyway?

 

[Rocker949]

Nah - I don't want to get into a "Who's better than Cream?" debate. It's just that, for me, I have never heard anything from them that I would call "great".

That said, I dig what they did with Crossroads, I really like Badge (though, it's Harrison's influence that draws me in to that one), and I did enjoy watching the DVD of their re-union concert at the Royal Albert Hall... but overall, they just don't do it for me.

But, hey... who cares what I like, anyway?

I enjoyed the reunion concerts myself and was glad they were even able to do them in the first place. Certainly, though, I've been around friends who are consummate musicians and Cream fans who felt the reunion performances were way too subdued and disappointing. Personally, I wasn't expecting Cream to sound like they did in the 1960s, but I suppose some people did expect that.

 

[Floyd Eye]

I think some of you need to put your personal preference aside for the sake of clarity and objectivity.

I am not a huge Cream fan. For the record, I am more a Beatles, AIC, Deftones, Tool, Chevelle sort of guy.

I digress. No friggin' way Keith Moon was anywhere near the same league with Ginger Baker. No friggin' way. Maybe some UNKNOWN musicians on the internet " From that time period", may hold that opinion, but I pretty well guarantee you that the remaining, living members of The Who and every single musician who ever played with Baker would never say he was.

 

[jerry]

I enjoyed the reunion concerts myself and was glad they were even able to do them in the first place. Certainly, though, I've been around friends who are consummate musicians and Cream fans who felt the reunion performances were way too subdued and disappointing. Personally, I wasn't expecting Cream to sound like they did in the 1960s, but I suppose some people did expect that.

I thought Ginger Baker played great at the reunion shows, more in the pocket.

 

[Rocker949]

I thought Ginger Baker played great at the reunion shows, more in the pocket.

I was kind of shocked that my friends even said that. I wasn't expecting their reaction to be that way at all. In fact, one is probably even more of a Jack Bruce fan than I am, if that is even possible. Still, though, both love and respect Cream as a band (as far as I know.) It's just for some reason they must have had different expectations from the reunion shows than I did. I loved the reunion concerts. That was history in the making as far as I'm concerned.

 

[esa372]

I think some of you need to put your personal preference aside for the sake of clarity and objectivity.

Agreed.

No friggin' way Keith Moon was anywhere near the same league with Ginger Baker. No friggin' way.

I agree, but - IMHO - it is Baker who doesn't measure up to Moon.

...I pretty well guarantee you that the remaining, living members of The Who and every single musician who ever played with Baker would never say he was.

This, too, is opinion; "personal preference", as you say.

There simply is no way to determine what "the remaining members of The Who, and every single musician who ever played with Baker" might say. And, even if you could, who is to say that they are correct? (For example, I've heard Townshend say awful and untrue things about every member of The Who.)

Furthermore, I'm sure that an equal number of "credible authorities" could be found to support either position. As a matter of fact, you (one of the many "UNKNOWN musicians on the internet") are the first person that I have ever encountered who has stated a preference for Baker over Moon.

Rock on, either way - ultimately, it is unimportant.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Again, it isn't a preference. It's like saying Nikki Sixx is better than Jaco. This is demonstrably false.


And as for ol' Pedo Pete, I wouldn't put much stock in anything that dude has to say. lol

 

[esa372]

Again, it isn't a preference. It's like saying Nikki Sixx is better than Jaco.

Now, that's funny. But, there are LOTS of people who would say that with undying fervor.

This is demonstrably false.

OK - demonstrate it. (...but, perhaps you should start a new thread to do so.)

 

[Floyd Eye]

Listen to any Weather Report song. Listen to any Motley Crue song.


Hmm, that was easy. lol

 

[Floyd Eye]

OK, quick question. Rank these guys in order of skill.

Lars Ulrich
Tommy Lee
Sean Kinney
Chad Smith

 

[esa372]

Listen to any Weather Report song. Listen to any Motley Crue song.


Hmm, that was easy. lol

Cute, but:

a) That would only demonstrate one's opinions and personal preferences

b) You know very well that you were saying you could demonstrate Baker's superiority to Moon, so go ahead.

And as for [...] Pete, I wouldn't put much stock in anything that dude has to say.

So, your point - when referring to "the remaining members of The Who" - was in reference to Daltrey, only? ...and you can "guarantee" that Mr. Daltrey would say that Baker was a better drummer than Moon? I don't know what kind of guarantee you are offering, but I'll take it.