Just finished reading Jack Bruce's autobiography.

[SlingBass4]

And YOUR credentials are?

Hell, I'm saying that THIS young man is a better drummer than Baker.

Surely you jest......while good for his age and what he's doing - that's NOT ensamble related playing (note lack of high hat work)

I think it silly to say: "Who's the best?" in these threads

Suffice it to say that all the mentioned were THE drummer for their band at that time and place. There are no "what if's" :scowl:

 

[blue4]

Keith Moon was undoubtedly an entertaining drummer and a perfect drummer for the Who. Nobody could have done the Who better. But...
Baker could play a rock gig, a jazz gig, and a world music type gig in one day and add something to each. Keith Moon doing a jazz gig would sound like "The Who plays Jazz." It seems pretty clear cut to me, but then again I'm neither a Cream/Baker fan or a Who fan.

 

[dougjwray]

Just a slight digression...

I was at one of the Cream reunion shows at Madison Square Garden, and behind me I had a dolt who seemed to be there only for "Sunshine of Your Love" and "White Room." His girlfriend was much worse. Near the beginning of the night (when she realized what she'd gotten herself into, apparently) she blurted out, "I hope there's not going to be a drum solo."

This would be like going to a Yankee game in 1927, noticing Babe Ruth, and saying, "I hope there's not going to be a home run."

 

[dougjwray]

Keith Moon was undoubtedly an entertaining drummer and a perfect drummer for the Who. Nobody could have done the Who better. But...
Baker could play a rock gig, a jazz gig, and a world music type gig in one day and add something to each. Keith Moon doing a jazz gig would sound like "The Who plays Jazz." It seems pretty clear cut to me, but then again I'm neither a Cream/Baker fan or a Who fan.

Thanks-- that's exactly what I was trying to say.

 

[dougjwray]

felix is probably the man responsible for jack's distorted tone and possibly his choice of bass.

glenn cornick also took influence from felix.

Welllll... Jack's attributed his distorted sound to the fact that the amps of the time weren't up to the task. In Cream, he used 100-watt Marshall guitar heads, turned up all the way. He once said that when they played at Madison Square Garden in the '60s, the PA was the same one used for the ring announcers. ("In this corner, weighing 215 pounds...") Primitive! It's possible that no bass was put through the mains, but naturally I can't say for sure. That sound became a part of his personality, and he most likely had the diode installed in his bass to preserve that, in the studio.
Felix Pappalardi was a very accomplished musician before he produced Cream, but I'm guessing that working with Jack influenced his bass sound, rather than the other way around.

 

[Up the dose]

Last night I watched a documentary called " Beware Mr. Baker". It was basically a film about the life of Ginger. Ginger had a lot to say about Jack, most of it not that fondly remembering him. Jack had nothing but nice stuff to say about Ginger really. They are both well up there these days.

Anyway, it was a pretty cool film and I highly recommend it to any Cream fans.

Totally agree! Great movie! The man has lived quite an interesting life . It's a shame that the most talented people in one area are often so flawed in every other way. I had always considered Ginger to be a great drummer before seeing this movie, but I never realized just how good he was. I was blown away by some of the footage in this movie.

 

[thebates]

You don't need a big ego to be a drummer (or anything else, for that mater). Everything I've ever read about Ginger Baker - or heard from his own lips - illustrates that the guy is an angry, misanthropic, bag full of crazy.

Brilliant drummer, but I don't think I'd want to know him.

The Buddy Rich of the rock world.....

 

[thebates]

I would add this. Crossroads, of course.

The band and Clapton at his best....hands down...

 

[Up the dose]

I am a fan of both Moonie and Ginger. There is no arguing the greatness of both men. Any one that doubts Moon's ability on drums please watch The Who's Isle of Wight 1970 concert.

 

[dougjwray]

I am a fan of both Moonie and Ginger. There is no arguing the greatness of both men. Any one that doubts Moon's ability on drums please watch The Who's Isle of Wight 1970 concert.

Agreed. He is amazing in that footage.

 

[esa372]

Agreed. He is amazing in that footage.

...and most of that gig was played with a broken head on one of his kick drums. As the video shows, it broke at the beginning of Young Man Blues and wasn't fixed until the middle of My Generation. (You can even hear it, if you listen closely.)

Given the original set list, he played ~20 of those songs with a broken kick head:

01 Heaven And Hell
02 I Can't Explain
03 Young Man Blues
04 I Don't Even Know Myself
05 Water
06 Overture
07 It's A Boy
08 Eyesight To The Blind (The Hawker)
09 Christmas
10 The Acid Queen
11 Pinball Wizard
12 Do You Think It's Alright?
13 Fiddle About
14 Go To The Mirror
15 Miracle Cure
16 I'm Free
17 We're Not Gonna Take It
18 See Me Feel Me / Listening To You
19 Tommy Can You Hear Me?
20 Shakin'All Over / Spoonful / Twist And Shout
21 Summertime Blues
22 My Generation
23 Magic Bus

The '69 concert at the London Coliseum is a bit better, because of this.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

...I like to tell folks about the Downbeat magazine interview I read. Elvin Jones was at the time (1970 or so), so give me slack here, the leader of his own band and a highly regarded jazz drummer.

...The interviewer played a cream song next and Jones said "They ought to make that guy an astronaut and lose his ass", or words similar. Within the next few weeks Baker issued a challenge for a drum off to settle. This thread is motivating me to search for articles on that drum contest.

Late to this party, but I remember reading about that drum battle in my dad's copy of Melody Maker, the British music paper.

At least according to the reviewer, Jones' superior technique was the real eye-opener. The way the article told it, Jones gradually upped the intensity, never showing any effort, yet consistently playing louder than Ginger until he was reduced to a sweaty heap. Supposedly, Baker never stood a chance.

I remember thinking at the time that while the jazz cat might have better chops, I'd much rather listen to Cream than the Elvin Jones Jazz Machine...

 

[Buster Brown]

Surely you jest......while good for his age and what he's doing - that's NOT ensamble related playing (note lack of high hat work)

I think it silly to say: "Who's the best?" in these threads

Suffice it to say that all the mentioned were THE drummer for their band at that time and place. There are no "what if's" :scowl:

Of course I jest. Just trying to point out that these "A" is better than "B" threads are a pointless waste of time.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Of course I jest. Just trying to point out that these "A" is better than "B" threads are a pointless waste of time.

Technically damn near everything about this place is a waste of time, yet here you are.

And my credentials are that I am not a guy who believes Keith Moon was in the same class as Ginger Baker. I believe my credentials speak for themselves.

 

[Rocker949]

Interviewer to Hendrix: How does it feel to be the best guitar player?

Hendrix: I don't know, ask Rory Gallagher.

Source?

 

[Rocker949]

The band and Clapton at his best....hands down...

Oh, yes. Their version of "Crossroads" still sounds great today.

 

[esa372]

Oh, yes. Their version of "Crossroads" still sounds great today.

...even when Rush does it!

 

[karl_em_all]

Source?

Haha no source man.

Supposedly this is what Jimi Hendrix said to an interviewer after playing woodstock. You can google it and find lots of hits on it but I don't think there's actual documented proof, it's probably more like an urban myth/legend type thing. From interviews I've seen of Hendrix he was a pretty laid back dude and not given to self praise so it's probably not out of his character to say something like that.

However, all jokes aside, Rory was a fan f@#king tastic guitar player and was totally on par with all the greats.

 

[Kmonk]

Yes, but in general Jack Bruce was known to be extremely difficult, even if he WAS extremely talented.

Cream didn't have a prayer of surviving, but their music has totally endured.

Jack is in poor health lately, he's canceled some gigs. I think I'll never meet him!

I did two shows with him about 10 years ago. He was very friendly and had a great sense of humor. A friend of mine who was playing guitar for him. When he introduce me to Jack he told him that I was a bass player. Jack shook my hand and said "Wow, I always wanted to meet a bass player". He spent several minutes talking to me about music and Warwick basses.

 

[Rocker949]

Haha no source man.

Supposedly this is what Jimi Hendrix said to an interviewer after playing woodstock. You can google it and find lots of hits on it but I don't think there's actual documented proof, it's probably more like an urban myth/legend type thing. From interviews I've seen of Hendrix he was a pretty laid back dude and not given to self praise so it's probably not out of his character to say something like that.

However, all jokes aside, Rory was a fan f@#king tastic guitar player and was totally on par with all the greats.

I've done a lot of reading about Hendrix and have seen several urban myth stories, of course. That story sometimes has Billy Gibbons instead of Rory Gallagher, as well as a few other guitarists. I agree it would not have been out of character for Hendrix to say something like that about any of them, though. I agree Rory Gallagher doesn't even receive half the attention he deserves. He was brilliant, no doubt, awesome, in fact.