Double Bass Just got the NEW EDB-2 VAP for testing and review

[John Littler]

Hi Samuel, the Headway EDB pre-amps run on 18v from two PP3 batteries, except that on EDB-2 VAP the valve (tube) bypasses battery power and just runs on the external PSU option. You would need a mountain of batteries to run a valve. This means that if you break or lose the PSU, you can still do the gig. 18v made various phantom voltages more viable, including stepping up to 48v. John of Headway

 

[BassDuex]

I’ve been using a Headway EDB-2 VAP and have a few questions and thought I’d share my experience so far. It arrived just in time for 3 gigs (with my EA iAmp/EA 2x10) and rehearsals (with a boomy Peavy 15” combo). Band mates have said ‘this is the first time I can really hear the upper mids’. I’ve been playing pizz/slap in an acoustic band with a light handed drummer, to my ear this is the best sounding preamp I’ve used.

1. Channel 1 FX out is labeled as ‘Send/Tuner’. I would think that a ‘tuner’ output would mean that you can put a tuner there without the need to run the signal back - ie take it out of the signal chain.
On the VAP it appears that I have to run a return line to utilize a tuner in that spot. Am I missing a setting somewhere?

2. I have a TRS to Dual Mono that I would like to use as a stereo input for 2 piezos. This cable works fine in the ‘insert’ function for channel 2. However, i can’t seem to get it to work for dual pickups in the Channel 1/2 Stereo input. The Ring channel doesn’t seem to work. I set phantom to ‘off’, etc, review the manual, not seeing anything.

3. Confirming the notch filter can only cover 1 channel. I thought I read a conflicting statement somewhere.


I have been using a Fishman FC > Sarno BB > Fishman Platinum.
Swapped to FC>EDB-VAP with excellent results - only drawback is lack of tuner. Mounting to mic stand is awesome - and I think a wireless from there is in the future….
Recently added a Vic’s pickups.
Wing - the sound is much richer in the midrange, and I don’t have to cut lows much (FC I have to cut low on the EDB or it distorts/obscures clarity, even with the HPF).
That being said there is something nice about the FC and I can eq both to sound fairly similar or wildly different.
I have a separate Vic’s Clicky and will most likely go with that and the Vic’s wing - only having 1 channel for the Notch Filter limits running the FC/Vic’s pair, though I find cranking up the HPF on the non-notch filtered channel as a compromise.

 

[rickwolff]

I’ve been using a Headway EDB-2 VAP and have a few questions and thought I’d share my experience so far....... to my ear this is the best sounding preamp I’ve used.

Nice review. Thank you. I expect John may weigh in and answer some of your questions.

 

[rickwolff]

So Here's what's next for the VAP.

The new Headway Pre-amp has been making the rounds for some time now and the reviews seem uniformly positive, with a few questions of functionality which have been answered by John Littler.

One thing I would like to have seen (or heard) are some recordings doing an A/B comparison between A. Using the Tube, and B. Going straight without the preamp in the mix.

So, I decided to have the VAP sent back to me and I intend to do several recordings showing how the amp can improve your sound. I will do this using several different basses and pickups ( and microphones). This is going to take some time but I hope it will be worth it. So stay tuned for more to come.

For now, there is one comparison recording in Post # 3 of this thread that I did with the VAP before sending it out 'on the road'. With more time I hope to do a lot more recordings of different basses, pickups, mics etc.

 

[John Littler]

Holy moly, that thing is huge.

Hi BDowd, the valve made a big difference on box size as the heat has to be dissipated. There are makers who cram valves in on printed circuit boards and they can burn those out. We wanted to avoid that. There's also a lot of extra features and the knobs made use of the extra space so are more spaced out to be easier to use. John of Headway

 

[John Littler]

I’ve been using a Headway EDB-2 VAP and have a few questions and thought I’d share my experience so far. It arrived just in time for 3 gigs (with my EA iAmp/EA 2x10) and rehearsals (with a boomy Peavy 15” combo). Band mates have said ‘this is the first time I can really hear the upper mids’. I’ve been playing pizz/slap in an acoustic band with a light handed drummer, to my ear this is the best sounding preamp I’ve used.

1. Channel 1 FX out is labeled as ‘Send/Tuner’. I would think that a ‘tuner’ output would mean that you can put a tuner there without the need to run the signal back - ie take it out of the signal chain.
On the VAP it appears that I have to run a return line to utilize a tuner in that spot. Am I missing a setting somewhere?

2. I have a TRS to Dual Mono that I would like to use as a stereo input for 2 piezos. This cable works fine in the ‘insert’ function for channel 2. However, i can’t seem to get it to work for dual pickups in the Channel 1/2 Stereo input. The Ring channel doesn’t seem to work. I set phantom to ‘off’, etc, review the manual, not seeing anything.

3. Confirming the notch filter can only cover 1 channel. I thought I read a conflicting statement somewhere.


I have been using a Fishman FC > Sarno BB > Fishman Platinum.
Swapped to FC>EDB-VAP with excellent results - only drawback is lack of tuner. Mounting to mic stand is awesome - and I think a wireless from there is in the future….
Recently added a Vic’s pickups.
Wing - the sound is much richer in the midrange, and I don’t have to cut lows much (FC I have to cut low on the EDB or it distorts/obscures clarity, even with the HPF).
That being said there is something nice about the FC and I can eq both to sound fairly similar or wildly different.
I have a separate Vic’s Clicky and will most likely go with that and the Vic’s wing - only having 1 channel for the Notch Filter limits running the FC/Vic’s pair, though I find cranking up the HPF on the non-notch filtered channel as a compromise.

 

[John Littler]

Hi BassDuex, we didn't include a dedicated Tuner Out or a send and Return on Ch.2 ( there was Insert Point on Ch.2) as small compromises to save space as the unit has already grown and you could go on adding more forever. Both of those small compromises can be dealt with by having easily available, low cost external gear. Tuner with In and Out sockets ( or Clip on Tuner) and a "Y" lead.

When we had Shire King Combo Amps, they included a dedicated Tuner Out as more space available and I intend to offer this feature on all but the smallest combo amps due out in next year or so.

On the Notch Filter, if we had offered a combined 2 Channel setting, that would be the 2 channels mixed and unable to be split for a different mix or signal between front of house and on stage. It would also have made the labelling of outputs vague or confusing. The alternative of having two separate notch filters would really be getting a considerable increase in complexity, size, cost and power consumption for a feature that most player don't use or use very rarely in my judgement. Again, we have to draw the line somewhere and the notch offers Channel 1 or 2.

Regarding these: Ring doesn't seem to work / distortion until mids and lows dialled back ?

I suggest courier this back to us at our expense and we will check, fix or replace the unit and then it can continue on it's merry way. I will contact Rick Wolf.

 

[BassDuex]

I’ll keep that in mind, but I need to try some other TRS cables before being concerned about the unit.
The trade offs certainly have simple work arounds. I have to say that the mic-stand mounting is such a cool feature - making adjustments so easily to stop feedback or alter the mix of the 2 channels for different songs etc. The eq is phenomenal, it works with an acoustic bass like nothing else. Anyhow I simply have never had more fun playing amplified upright bass.

 

[John Littler]

BassDuex, thanks for the positive note on the EQ. We've never changed the 5 Band EQ starting with the Shire King combo acoustic amps in 2005, through a whole series of products. I'm very proud of it. And to think you are enjoying playing more as a result, that is terrific. Thank you from John of Headway

 

[BassDuex]

One last question:
My understanding is that the line out can be 2 channel on a TRS or mono via TS cable.
if I were to use a wireless ‘bug’ like the Boss ML50, which has a TRS tip for charging purposes, would I end up loosing a channel?
Thank you!

 

[Eric Hochberg]

@John Littler

Hi John, happily using an EDM to power my Schertler pickup that requires 10v phantom. Can I use the EDB-2 VAP in the same way and will the tube kick in?

Can anyone comment on the tube effect on a non-piezo condenser pickup?

 

[flatback]

Tube warming sounds absolutely great with the Schertler Stat B. The Stat and Yama mixed sound superb too.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Tube warming sounds absolutely great with the Schertler Stat B. The Stat and Yama mixed sound superb too.

Do you use a particular unit? Can't remember...

 

[ablumley]

Can anyone comment on the tube effect on a non-piezo condenser pickup?

@Eric Hochberg - I'm powering an Ischell x48c contact condenser mic with the VAP. Not sure how much the Ischell and the Schertler are alike but in this case adding the tube circuit alters the overall tonal contour in a positive way. It seems to smooth out and fatten the upper mids and especially benefits the arco and DI sound when compared to the original EDB-2. @flatback is this what you mean by "tube warming" ?

 

[BassDuex]

What role does the Tube play in the VAP circuit?

 

[Eric Hochberg]

@Eric Hochberg - I'm powering an Ischell x48c contact condenser mic with the VAP. Not sure how much the Ischell and the Schertler are alike but in this case adding the tube circuit alters the overall tonal contour in a positive way. It seems to smooth out and fatten the upper mids and especially benefits the arco and DI sound when compared to the original EDB-2. @flatback is this what you mean by "tube warming" ?

Thanks. I don't know the design technicalities of the Schertler Stat but it seems to be somewhat mic-like. It however doesn't sound as mic-like as the Ischell, which I believe is a mic. When recorded direct the Stat has a bridge pickup sound but generally more refined and pleasing than a harsher piezo. Being bridge mounted vs. body mounted plays big a part in it too.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Any comparisons on the sound between the Sarno and the VAP? I tried the Sarno while in rotation here a while back and I found the effect to be very subtle with my Stat B. A little more pronounced and helpful with the Full Circle.

 

[flatback]

I use the Sarno V8 which has octal tubes and eq. IT has a more pronounced tube effect. I think the new VAP is a great tool, I was the first here to get into the Headway Line and I Love John, what a fantastic person to be working for acoustic musicians. If I wasn't so already invested in other Tube gear I would get the VAP or SushiBox (if I had an older Headway) but the VAP tube and the BB are the same tube 12Ax7.
I REALLY like the sound of the StatB and Yama going into the Felix (which has 12v phantom for the Stat) and using the fx loop for the Tube pre.

 

[John Littler]

What role does the Tube play in the VAP circuit?

BassDuex, the 12AX7 tube or valve in the EDB-2 VAP can be switched in or out and can be applied as one side of it to each channel or can be "doubled" with both sides on Channel one for greater effect or saturation. The Gain control pot and valve/tube Balance control pot both increase and reduce the levels going through the valve. The Balance reflects the amount of signal going through, or bypassing it. You may prefer the single sided tube sound, which is lighter and clearer and in my opinion, realistic. The Doubler or extreme Balance settings, makes it thicker.

All tubes/ valves distort if a strong enough signal is passed through them. This unusual wiring for acoustic instruments here means that within reason, a stronger signal from the instrument pickup can be backed off using Gain and/or Balance controls to prevent distortion. Of course you might like distortion on occasions, although this setup has been mainly designed to reduce that.

12AX7 valves/tubes may be purchased from any decent guitar shop and some specialist electronics retailers. Different manufacturers tubes sound different. You want a low noise version, not the cheapest probably Chinese versions, as these can be microphonic and probably will not last long. The better Chinese versions are fine. There has been a shortage of valves, following the lock downs and various supply chain issues ( globalisation is going into reverse & Brexit is rubbish).

Since the tube/ valve can be switched off, you can still do the gig if it fails. Valves / Tubes should be seen as consumables, a little like light bulbs. They used to be made in light bulb factories, such as in the old Soviet Union, before transistors caught on. The tube is powered by the DC PSU supplied and cannot be powered by optional batteries, we call backups. So if you lose or break the PSU, or can't plug the mains connector into a socket in an overseas country, you can still do the gig, as the batteries power all other facilities on EDB-2 VAP. We didn't put batteries into the EDB-2 VAP because if we had done, we would expect complaints that the valve wasn't doing anything. So that's one complaint that's been avoided. I am happy to receive other complaints as that helps improve products. We are currently designing a 300w acoustic bass amp combo prototype using Class D, an aluminium housing and two drivers, a 6.5" 200w rms woofer and a 5.5" 120w co-axial, which handles a modest amount of treble and both at full power down to 70Hz but useable down to 60Hz. It will be well featured including two channels, tweeter defeat and probably a low noise compressor. It will be incredibly small, about 12-13 Litres for the sound cab and an extra litre for electronics with an external PSU. Modelling suggests it's capable of 120dB. John of Headway

 

[rickwolff]

BassDuex, the 12AX7 tube or valve in the EDB-2 VAP can be switched in or out and can be applied as one side of it to each channel or can be "doubled" with both sides on Channel one for greater effect or saturation. The Gain control pot and valve/tube Balance control pot both increase and reduce the levels going through the valve. The Balance reflects the amount of signal going through, or bypassing it. You may prefer the single sided tube sound, which is lighter and clearer and in my opinion, realistic. The Doubler or extreme Balance settings, makes it thicker.

All tubes/ valves distort if a strong enough signal is passed through them. This unusual wiring for acoustic instruments here means that within reason, a stronger signal from the instrument pickup can be backed off using Gain and/or Balance controls to prevent distortion. Of course you might like distortion on occasions, although this setup has been mainly designed to reduce that.

12AX7 valves/tubes may be purchased from any decent guitar shop and some specialist electronics retailers. Different manufacturers tubes sound different. You want a low noise version, not the cheapest probably Chinese versions, as these can be microphonic and probably will not last long. The better Chinese versions are fine. There has been a shortage of valves, following the lock downs and various supply chain issues ( globalisation is going into reverse & Brexit is rubbish).

Since the tube/ valve can be switched off, you can still do the gig if it fails. Valves / Tubes should be seen as consumables, a little like light bulbs. They used to be made in light bulb factories, such as in the old Soviet Union, before transistors caught on. The tube is powered by the DC PSU supplied and cannot be powered by optional batteries, we call backups. So if you lose or break the PSU, or can't plug the mains connector into a socket in an overseas country, you can still do the gig, as the batteries power all other facilities on EDB-2 VAP. We didn't put batteries into the EDB-2 VAP because if we had done, we would expect complaints that the valve wasn't doing anything. So that's one complaint that's been avoided. I am happy to receive other complaints as that helps improve products. We are currently designing a 300w acoustic bass amp combo prototype using Class D, an aluminium housing and two drivers, a 6.5" 200w rms woofer and a 5.5" 120w co-axial, which handles a modest amount of treble and both at full power down to 70Hz but useable down to 60Hz. It will be well featured including two channels, tweeter defeat and probably a low noise compressor. It will be incredibly small, about 12-13 Litres for the sound cab and an extra litre for electronics with an external PSU. Modelling suggests it's capable of 120dB. John of Headway

John, you know I can't wait to try that. I think you have my credit card number on file. LOL