Double Bass Just got the NEW EDB-2 VAP for testing and review

[premajz]

Hello, is there any chance if somebody can compare (test) new VAP DI function to some top DI boxes like Avalon U5, Radial FireFly, Rupert Neve Designs RNDI etc.? I'm just thinking about new VAP or combination old HE (which I already own) + such tuop notch DI. It's for my new project where I have to change doublebass to P-Bass during gig couple of time. Thanks in advance for some info.

 

[ablumley]

Hello, is there any chance if somebody can compare (test) new VAP DI function to some top DI boxes like Avalon U5, Radial FireFly, Rupert Neve Designs RNDI etc.? I'm just thinking about new VAP or combination old HE (which I already own) + such tuop notch DI. It's for my new project where I have to change doublebass to P-Bass during gig couple of time. Thanks in advance for some info.

Hi,

I have used the VAP for a couple of weeks now on gigs, rehearsals and a recording session. It's an easy to use, great sounding and versatile preamp. Unfortunately I'm not doubling with it, nor am I using piezo pickups so my situation is probably a bit different from yours. Nevertheless (I think) that the VAP does do something similar to those other excellent tube DIs that you mention as it contains a proper transformer and runs higher voltages through the tube rather than starving it with 18v or something similar.

When powering an Ischell C3 contact microphone, introducing the tube circuit really helps to smooth out the throaty edge from the amplified arco tone. Playing pizz with the same contact mic, the tube circuit seems to bring out more of the finger details and the upper end of the spectrum. In general, I've found the direct sound of the VAP to be much more pleasing and even realistic than it was possible to get with the original EDB-2. Also, the specific effect of the tube circuit on the sound seems to really depend on the character of the source and the amount of preamp gain that hits the tube circuit. Add to this, the possibilities of tube-swapping (which I have done with mine). If pushed hard, it does get that saggy thing starting to happen (possibly a cool sound with a p-bass) and there is a bit of noise introduced with the tube circuit. However, I can't say if the noise floor is more or less than with a fine tube DI like a radial firefly or a U5.

The form factor of the VAP is pretty awesome as well. It's still lightweight like the other EDB-2 models but with slightly bigger knobs which make it easier to adjust while playing. I keep it on the floor beside me.

 

[bassically_eli]

Are you also using the H.E. circuit? That also brings out some detail and the high end of the spectrum. I'm curious how that feature interacts and pairs with the tube.

Hi,

I have used the VAP for a couple of weeks now on gigs, rehearsals and a recording session. It's an easy to use, great sounding and versatile preamp. Unfortunately I'm not doubling with it, nor am I using piezo pickups so my situation is probably a bit different from yours. Nevertheless (I think) that the VAP does do something similar to those other excellent tube DIs that you mention as it contains a proper transformer and runs higher voltages through the tube rather than starving it with 18v or something similar.

When powering an Ischell C3 contact microphone, introducing the tube circuit really helps to smooth out the throaty edge from the amplified arco tone. Playing pizz with the same contact mic, the tube circuit seems to bring out more of the finger details and the upper end of the spectrum. In general, I've found the direct sound of the VAP to be much more pleasing and even realistic than it was possible to get with the original EDB-2. Also, the specific effect of the tube circuit on the sound seems to really depend on the character of the source and the amount of preamp gain that hits the tube circuit. Add to this, the possibilities of tube-swapping (which I have done with mine). If pushed hard, it does get that saggy thing starting to happen (possibly a cool sound with a p-bass) and there is a bit of noise introduced with the tube circuit. However, I can't say if the noise floor is more or less than with a fine tube DI like a radial firefly or a U5.

The form factor of the VAP is pretty awesome as well. It's still lightweight like the other EDB-2 models but with slightly bigger knobs which make it easier to adjust while playing. I keep it on the floor beside me.

 

[ablumley]

Are you also using the H.E. circuit? That also brings out some detail and the high end of the spectrum. I'm curious how that feature interacts and pairs with the tube.

So far I've found myself employing all of the VAP's tone-shaping controls with the exception of the notch filter (which is a bit surprising as I used it often for tone-shaping with Ischell contact mics and the original EDB2). Depending on how it's dialed in, the tube circuit seems to change the overall contour of the sound (impacting highs, lows and mids) while the H.E. circuit only accentuates the upper partials. Not sure if it's the same with the older EDB-2 HE, but adding signal from the H.E. circuit is a bit more subtle sounding than bumping the treble or presence knob in the EQ section. Also, compared to the original EDB-2, small adjustments of the VAP's 5-band tone controls seem to make a bigger impact on the sound and the rotary high pass filter is great for dealing with boomy proximity effects from close micing. When using a modified Troll ribbon mic, I found that I didn't even have to touch the EQ section and instead adjusted the tone using a lot of HPF, some H.E. and the tube circuit. The xlr input impedance seems high enough to get a good sound out of the ribbon mic without having to resort to using a mic booster.

Also, the various routing options for the outputs adds to the VAP's versatility. With 2 DI's, it's possible to send the pre-eq to the FOH while the post-eq gets sent to a different channel feeding a full-range monitor on-stage. In some situations that I play in, this could replace the need for an amplifier.

 

[rickwolff]

Great reviews and feedback everybody. Thank you. It looks like this thing is a HIT (no surprised, really).

When I first got it I didn't have time to do much testing myself as I was about to head out on an extended vacation trip - I'd especially like to do more A/B testing with the HE and the VAP. I have a Morley Quadbox switching pedal so it should be easy to switch from one to the other with just a click of the footswitch.

So when I eventually get the VAP back that is my plan. But so far there are a number of people who would like to try it so It will continue on its rounds until all interested parties have had a chance to test it.

Once again, Kudos to John and Headway for continuing to push the envelope. I've been testing these since the original EDB-2 and each one has been great, BUT each new one continues to build on the strengths of the previous models while adding some significant improvement. Well done.

 

[peteswanson91]

Can one use both the tubes and phantom power at the same time? My pickup requires phantom power and would want to run it through the tubes

 

[rickwolff]

Can one use both the tubes and phantom power at the same time? My pickup requires phantom power and would want to run it through the tubes

Yes, I'm almost sure you can.

 

[kkenda11]

I recently finished up my trial with the EDB-2 VAP. Many thanks to John from Headway for letting us have the device to trial! I am a current and happy owner of the EDB2 HE, and I was curious to see how the new box compares.

Overall, the VAP is a great product. It has several areas in which is is more flexible or improved compared the the EDB2 HE (routing, low pass filter) and of course the tube! Everything worked as advertised and felt familiar to me as a longtime Headway user. With my realist lifeline the effect of the VAP circuit is noticeable, but fairly subtle. Even fully on there is very little breakup of the sound. I actually think the lifeline sounds pretty decent on my bass with the regular HE -- I wonder if the effect of the VAP circuit would be more notable if I had a pickup with a less pleasing sound to start with...

It is great that is can still run off batteries (without the tube) -- that is a feature that I really love about all versions of the EDB2.

Speaking of larger -- the size difference is more significant in person than I was expecting from pictures. I throw the HE into the accessory pocket of my bass without a second thought, but I think I'd need to carry the VAP in a bag (which it comes with). In terms of dimensions, it is now closer to something like a Felix.

Overall, a great preamp!

 

[bassically_eli]

This was just the info I was looking for! I also use the Headway EDB2 HE with my basses, both of which have Lifelines. I can see why many consider the HE feature to be subtle, but I really think it adds life to what is otherwise a dull pickup (I think all piezo are dull sounding to some extent, fwiw). I was really curious how the VAP would interact with the Lifeline, but I really like portability of the -2 HE version and often run it on batteries.

I recently finished up my trial with the EDB-2 VAP. Many thanks to John from Headway for letting us have the device to trial! I am a current and happy owner of the EDB2 HE, and I was curious to see how the new box compares.

Overall, the VAP is a great product. It has several areas in which is is more flexible or improved compared the the EDB2 HE (routing, low pass filter) and of course the tube! Everything worked as advertised and felt familiar to me as a longtime Headway user. With my realist lifeline the effect of the VAP circuit is noticeable, but fairly subtle. Even fully on there is very little breakup of the sound. I actually think the lifeline sounds pretty decent on my bass with the regular HE -- I wonder if the effect of the VAP circuit would be more notable if I had a pickup with a less pleasing sound to start with...

It is great that is can still run off batteries (without the tube) -- that is a feature that I really love about all versions of the EDB2.

Speaking of larger -- the size difference is more significant in person than I was expecting from pictures. I throw the HE into the accessory pocket of my bass without a second thought, but I think I'd need to carry the VAP in a bag (which it comes with). In terms of dimensions, it is now closer to something like a Felix.

Overall, a great preamp!

 

[rickwolff]

The Headway EDB-2 VAP is on it's way to the next tester.

If you're interested in trying this out and haven't let me know yet (or if I've lost your name/number) either post your interest here or send me a DM.

In your message please include:

Your Full Name
Your complete mailing address
Your personal email
Your cell phone number.

And state that you agree to post a review on this thread and that you will pay to ship to the next tester (including insurance).

Obviously, don't post to this thread with all that info - save that for the DM,

BUT, posting your interest here makes it easier for me to keep track of who would still like to try it.

Thanks,

Rick

 

[SamuelHarris]

DM incoming!

 

[rickwolff]

@SamuelHarris and @ Statc are on the list. Thank you.

Rick

 

[Ben Rolston]

Also Pm’d

 

[John Littler]

Can one use both the tubes and phantom power at the same time? My pickup requires phantom power and would want to run it through the tubes

Yes you can use the Tube (Valve) and Phantom and everything else at the same time. John of Headway

 

[Manoa Bell]

Really enjoyed testing the preamp! The tube made my piezo sound better than ever and blended nicely with the DPA. My only small qualm is I wish there was an external foot switch for the mute. Small potatoes certainly! Enjoy you all!

 

[John Littler]

I recently finished up my trial with the EDB-2 VAP. Many thanks to John from Headway for letting us have the device to trial! I am a current and happy owner of the EDB2 HE, and I was curious to see how the new box compares.

Overall, the VAP is a great product. It has several areas in which is is more flexible or improved compared the the EDB2 HE (routing, low pass filter) and of course the tube! Everything worked as advertised and felt familiar to me as a longtime Headway user. With my realist lifeline the effect of the VAP circuit is noticeable, but fairly subtle. Even fully on there is very little breakup of the sound. I actually think the lifeline sounds pretty decent on my bass with the regular HE -- I wonder if the effect of the VAP circuit would be more notable if I had a pickup with a less pleasing sound to start with...

It is great that is can still run off batteries (without the tube) -- that is a feature that I really love about all versions of the EDB2.

Speaking of larger -- the size difference is more significant in person than I was expecting from pictures. I throw the HE into the accessory pocket of my bass without a second thought, but I think I'd need to carry the VAP in a bag (which it comes with). In terms of dimensions, it is now closer to something like a Felix.

Overall, a great preamp!

Hi Manoa, the EDB-2 VAP is that much larger, partly for the extra features but mainly because of the valve. There are some western brand, Chinese made valve amps & pre-amps that put a valve in the middle of a main PCB circuit board surrounded by components with no proper means of heat sink, so after not very much time, the valve burns out the PCB and fails. That would likely result from making this too compact. The size of VAP also has the advantage of having more space for the knobs/controls, to more comfortably adjust them. There are plenty of devices of similar or larger size with less function. John of Headway

 

[lrhbass]

Has anybody had too much gain from Yamahico's? There was some talk about it being too hot.
And I think I recalled the Valve does not really work with the batteries.
Some concerns for my use.

 

[SamuelHarris]

Has anybody had too much gain from Yamahico's? There was some talk about it being too hot.
And I think I recalled the Valve does not really work with the batteries.
Some concerns for my use.

I'm next on the list and will be testing it with yamahikos so I can let you know. I swear my yamahikos being hot was more when they were new and over time have settled down. Can anyone confirm this? There is a backline amp at a local club that used to give me clipping at the tiniest amount of gain but now is more tameable, granted it's still only maybe "2 of 10". So hot but not scorching like it was originally. Who knows maybe its something with bass, setup, etc

If I remember correctly that valve cannot run on 9v. I think I saw it was originally intended as a backup on case power failed and mentioned the valve taking a lot of juice and would kill the batteries very quickly. It looks like now they have it so batteries will just auto bypass the valve circuit, guessing everything else runs similar to an EDB2.

 

[bassically_eli]

Valves require far too much energy to run on 9V batteries. Just think about all the waste heat they produce.

 

[John Littler]

I'm next on the list and will be testing it with yamahikos so I can let you know. I swear my yamahikos being hot was more when they were new and over time have settled down. Can anyone confirm this? There is a backline amp at a local club that used to give me clipping at the tiniest amount of gain but now is more tameable, granted it's still only maybe "2 of 10". So hot but not scorching like it was originally. Who knows maybe its something with bass, setup, etc

If I remember correctly that valve cannot run on 9v. I think I saw it was originally intended as a backup on case power failed and mentioned the valve taking a lot of juice and would kill the batteries very quickly. It looks like now they have it so batteries will just auto bypass the valve circuit, guessing everything else runs similar to an EDB2.