Just read an interesting story, thought I would share it.

[paste]

Background: A Israeli day care began fining parents for picking up children late, the number of late pickups went up. Economists believe that parents had previously been motivated to be on time by a sense of guilt, and the guilt went away when it was replaced by a fine that most of them could afford.

Excerpt: "Before the fine was introduced, the teachers and parents had a social contract, with social norms about being late. Thus, if parents were late — as they occasionally were — they felt guilty about it and their guilt compelled them to be more prompt in picking up their kids in the future. But once the fine was imposed, the day care center had inadvertently replaced the social norms with market norms. Now that the parents were paying for their tardiness, they interpreted the situation in terms of market norms. In other words, since they were being fined, they could decide for themselves whether to be late or not, and they frequently chose to be late. Needless to say, this was not what the day care center intended.

But the real story only started here. The most interesting part occurred a few weeks later, when the day care center removed the fine. Now the center was back to the social norm. Would the parents also return to the social norm? Would their guilt return as well? Not at all. Once the fine was removed, the behavior of the parents didn't change. They continued to pick up their kids late. In fact, when the fine was removed, there was a slight increase in the number of tardy pickups (after all, both the social norms and the fine had been removed)."

 

[two fingers]

Ha! Interesting.

Clearly the fine wasn't enough. At my kids' after school program it's a dollar a minute in fifteen minute blocks after 5:30. In other words 5:30 is $15. 5:44 is still $15. 5:45 is $30.

I haven't tested it yet. I don't want to.

 

[charlie monroe]

So these parents care less about money than they do about their offspring.

Nice.

What is the next paradigm shift?

Is anyone else outraged?

 

[SirMjac28]

That's interesting and man we humans are weird.

 

[paste]

Ha! Interesting.

Clearly the fine wasn't enough. At my kids' after school program it's a dollar a minute in fifteen minute blocks after 5:30. In other words 5:30 is $15. 5:44 is still $15. 5:45 is $30.

I haven't tested it yet. I don't want to.

I feel like if the fine is too much, the parent would just switch to another daycare. After all a daycare is just another business and i'm sure they don't want to run all there customer's off. Also as stated in the article if the fine is too low something like this might happen. Kind of a hard line to draw.

 

[Chicory Blue]

While the premise that late pickups increased after the fine was imposed is simply an observation of fact, the inference that setting a price removed the parents' sense of guilt and social convictions is way too specific an inference to make from such simple data.

There could be any number of other reasons for the increase, the first of which comes to mind is that prior to the fine, the consequence was not stated, leaving parents unsure of what they were risking- was a timely pickup mandatory for their continued membership? How late would they hold the child before shoving them off somewhere else? Announcing a fine clarified how low the risk was (as opposed, to, say, the child being banned from the daycare altogether after the third instance), and established how much longer the day care was prepared to continue to care for the child because they clearly had a payment system in place for it.

Moreover, I wouldn't go so far as to say that leaving your child in the care of dedicated caretakers for an extra half hour while you presumably finish providing for said child is itself indicative of bad parenting. The "why" matters, and it's an unknown here.

Mind you, I say so because I work in a school and can absolutely say that parents are getting more and more ridiculous by the year for reasons far less subtle than late pickups.

--^@

 

[Oddly]

Moreover, I wouldn't go so far as to say that leaving your child in the care of dedicated caretakers for an extra half hour while you presumably finish providing for said child is itself indicative of bad parenting.
--^@

I respectfully disagree. It's giving the child the lesson that the parent has more important things to do than collecting their child.
Sure, an occasional lapse will happen, and that may be explained, and forgiven, but on a recurring basis it's unacceptable.
While obviously it's probably the best place you can leave your child, how'd you think that makes the child feel, being the last one picked up?

It's also extremely dis-respectful to the teachers who have to stay and wait until the child is collected, thus disrupting their own plans...which may very well include collecting their own children.

I spent a lot of years collecting my kids from school, and even took a pay-cut, moved to working late shifts, and lost out on promotion prospects to make sure I was there on time every day.

My wife is a teacher, and regularly tells me of parents who are late due to getting their hair done, forgetting the time whilst at lunch, etc. ... Hardly 'presumably finishing providing for said child'!

I'm pretty sure if you work in a school you have plenty of similar experiences yourself.

 

[Chicory Blue]

I respectfully disagree. It's giving the child the lesson that the parent has more important things to do than collecting their child.
Sure, an occasional lapse will happen, and that may be explained, and forgiven, but on a recurring basis it's unacceptable.
While obviously it's probably the best place you can leave your child, how'd you think that makes the child feel, being the last one picked up?

It's also extremely dis-respectful to the teachers who have to stay and wait until the child is collected, thus disrupting their own plans...which may very well include collecting their own children.

I spent a lot of years collecting my kids from school, and even took a pay-cut, moved to working late shifts, and lost out on promotion prospects to make sure I was there on time every day.

My wife is a teacher, and regularly tells me of parents who are late due to getting their hair done, forgetting the time whilst at lunch, etc. ... Hardly 'presumably finishing providing for said child'!

I'm pretty sure if you work in a school you have plenty of similar experiences yourself.

There are have definitely been irksome situations, such as parents failing to communicate on who was due to pick up the child or arriving late with a boozey miasma about them, and it is frustrating to be made to wait if it's on the semi-regular. I'd agree that if they made a habit of it, it would be unacceptable.

Mostly I just feel it isn't quite right to assume the worst off the bat, y'know? The data we're working with suggests more overall late pickups, but doesn't specify how late, how frequently, or that it's the same parent specifically.

If one parent is routinely 15 minutes late and willing to pay, that could easily be consistent with work-related circumstances and not all that much of an outrage (we deal with it on the regs and it's simply part of the routine), and single instances of being an hour late are incredibly frustrating but explainable by unexpexted circumstances, but frequent and unpredictable instances of lateness definitely suggest the parent needs to get their act together yesterday.

--^@

 

[Funky Ghost]

I'd be interested in the sample size and socioeconomic make up of said sample size.

 

[slobake]

It used to be a pretty steep fine if you parked in a loading zone. Many times I saw a large truck double parked next to a car in the loading zone while some guy humped beer kegs or other items up this street.
Now your car gets towed if you are illegally parked in a loading zone. I don't see too many cars parked in the loading zones any more.

 

[Gorn]

How did they determine the parents' motivations? All I'm reading is supposition.

 

[blue4]

I respectfully disagree. It's giving the child the lesson that the parent has more important things to do than collecting their child.
Sure, an occasional lapse will happen, and that may be explained, and forgiven, but on a recurring basis it's unacceptable.
While obviously it's probably the best place you can leave your child, how'd you think that makes the child feel, being the last one picked up?

It's also extremely dis-respectful to the teachers who have to stay and wait until the child is collected, thus disrupting their own plans...which may very well include collecting their own children.

I spent a lot of years collecting my kids from school, and even took a pay-cut, moved to working late shifts, and lost out on promotion prospects to make sure I was there on time every day.

My wife is a teacher, and regularly tells me of parents who are late due to getting their hair done, forgetting the time whilst at lunch, etc. ... Hardly 'presumably finishing providing for said child'!

I'm pretty sure if you work in a school you have plenty of similar experiences yourself.

I agree with @Chicory Blue, people make too many assumptions about other people's jobs, pay, motives, etc. There will always be some crappy parents, but hardly anyone's hours are set in stone any more. You won't just lose out on promotions, you'll lose out on the job period.

The stay at home parents who are late, yeah there's no excuse for that.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Source of "article"?

 

[paste]

How did they determine the parents' motivations? All I'm reading is supposition.

The story is from an experiment Dan Ariely talk's about in his book Predictably Irrational. I only read this small excerpt on it so i'm not really sure how they determined the parent's motivation.

 

[blue4]

The conclusion is plausible, but seems like too many variables. I don't doubt that parents did think that the tardiness would be acceptable after the late fee was imposed.

 

[paste]

Source of "article"?

From the book Predictably Irrational.

 

[hbarcat]

I wonder if this is related to the way some celebrities, who play environmental activists, have an enormous pollution footprint themselves. They condemn the public in general for being wasteful of natural resources while they fly from mansion to mansion spewing tons of CO2 everywhere they go. They justify this behavior by donating money to the cause. Some solar panel company gets a check for $5,000 and they feel entitled to use 5,000 times the amount of energy as a normal person would.

 

[MonetBass]

This clearly demonstrates cultural differences. Based on my experience (our son has been attending aftercare for years), using guilt as motivation for American parents does not work. Making them pay, on the other hand, works wonders.

 

[noodler]

I wonder if this is related to the way some celebrities, who play environmental activists, have an enormous pollution footprint themselves. They condemn the public in general for being wasteful of natural resources while they fly from mansion to mansion spewing tons of CO2 everywhere they go. They justify this behavior by donating money to the cause. Some solar panel company gets a check for $5,000 and they feel entitled to use 5,000 times the amount of energy as a normal person would.

Carbon offset - Wikipedia

 

[duff beer]

Moreover, I wouldn't go so far as to say that leaving your child in the care of dedicated caretakers for an extra half hour while you presumably finish providing for said child is itself indicative of bad parenting. The "why" matters, and it's an unknown here.--^@

I see...so you made the baseless assumption that the employers of the late parents made them work later once they found out that the daycare would let them pick their kids up later? And, it never once crossed your mind that the parents themselves decided to show up late....