Keeping in time with a metronome at low bpm

[OllieVT]

One of my biggest struggles at the moment is, like the title says, keeping in time with a metronome at low speeds. Like, 44-50bpm range. Just me, the metronome and the book (Ed Friedland's Hal Leonard one, but I didn't put it that thread because I thought it was a more general issue).

At faster speeds things seem OK. (Or maybe I'm out by the same percentage and just don't notice?) With the backing tracks, which have a lot more cues (and are usually faster), I'm fine. But going slowly I really struggle.

So, does anyone have tips for improving at this?

[I'm aware of the pro-metronome vs anti-metronome debate. My position for now is that my teacher is pro-metronome (esp. at this speed) and I am pro-my-teacher, which makes me pro-metronome. I want to learn this skill rather than be persuaded that it's not necessary or a good idea.]

 

[SteveCS]

Have you tried getting a feel for those slower tempi by setting for a click on every 1/8th. So for 50 BPM set the 'nome to 100 and count 2 clicks per beat.

 

[Killing Floor]

Yep. That free Fender app goes all the way down to 10 bpm. Molassesisimo.

 

[Minimalist]

One of my biggest struggles at the moment is, like the title says, keeping in time with a metronome at low speeds. Like, 44-50bpm range. Just me, the metronome and the book (Ed Friedland's Hal Leonard one, but I didn't put it that thread because I thought it was a more general issue).

At faster speeds things seem OK. (Or maybe I'm out by the same percentage and just don't notice?) With the backing tracks, which have a lot more cues (and are usually faster), I'm fine. But going slowly I really struggle.

So, does anyone have tips for improving at this?

[I'm aware of the pro-metronome vs anti-metronome debate. My position for now is that my teacher is pro-metronome (esp. at this speed) and I am pro-my-teacher, which makes me pro-metronome. I want to learn this skill rather than be persuaded that it's not necessary or a good idea.]

It helps to move your body so you really feel the 1/8.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Have you tried getting a feel for those slower tempi by setting for a click on every 1/8th. So for 50 BPM set the 'nome to 100 and count 2 clicks per beat.

This. Adding in the subdivisions for now will help. Try just counting them in your head initially.

1 (and) 2 (and) 3 etc…

or
1 (e + a) 2 (e + a) 3 etc…

If you’re still struggling add them to the metronome.

Later on when your time is solid you can learn to take them out, or try click on every 2nd beat, etc.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Counting/singing subdivisions out loud definitely helps.

 

[OllieVT]

Thanks everyone. I'll give all this a try. My metronome app has a subdivisions option, but I turned it off to match the one my teacher uses. I'll turn it back on for a bit and see if I can crack it.

 

[azureblue]

Playing slow and staying with the beat, much less behind it, takes concentration. My exercise is to play a simple one note blues shuffle, at about 50 to 60. Get all the notes on the beat, and watch your releases...

 

[groooooove]

once you get lower than that, doubling the number and counting 8ths is very very reasonable to do.

you can later on just subdivide (count the 8ths in your head to match the quarters on the metronome)

you'll be fine... just keep it up. i'm glad your teacher is pro-metronome, the good ones tend to be...

 

[Groove Doctor]

Thanks everyone. I'll give all this a try. My metronome app has a subdivisions option, but I turned it off to match the one my teacher uses. I'll turn it back on for a bit and see if I can crack it.

While you’re at it…. also look at how you articulate each note.
- the attack
- the length of the note
- how you mute/dampen the string at the end of the note you.

It could possibly be that you’re not activating enough of your brain so your mind starts to wander or you switch off mentally. Activating more grey matter fixes this.

Most bassists can’t sing & play…. but I’m the opposite - I find that singing while playing keeps my mind switched on and improves my playing when playing easy bass lines. YMMV.

 

[fdeck]

Thanks everyone. I'll give all this a try. My metronome app has a subdivisions option, but I turned it off to match the one my teacher uses. I'll turn it back on for a bit and see if I can crack it.

This is a good way to get started, but once you've gotten comfortable with it, then turn the subdivisions back off because the point is ultimately being able to do it without the subdivisions. You can also work on "thinking" the subdivisions in your head.

 

[HolmeBass]

I too was going to suggest counting the subdivisions in your head.

Also keep at it, this is definitely an improveable skill but improvement will come slowly.

 

[r_bnks]

Subdivision is your friend.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

One of my biggest struggles at the moment is, like the title says, keeping in time with a metronome at low speeds. Like, 44-50bpm range. Just me, the metronome and the book (Ed Friedland's Hal Leonard one, but I didn't put it that thread because I thought it was a more general issue).

At faster speeds things seem OK. (Or maybe I'm out by the same percentage and just don't notice?) With the backing tracks, which have a lot more cues (and are usually faster), I'm fine. But going slowly I really struggle.

So, does anyone have tips for improving at this?

[I'm aware of the pro-metronome vs anti-metronome debate. My position for now is that my teacher is pro-metronome (esp. at this speed) and I am pro-my-teacher, which makes me pro-metronome. I want to learn this skill rather than be persuaded that it's not necessary or a good idea.]

This may seem silly, but count it as a waltz with click as the down best of the measure. Counting the gap between notes helped me.

 

[Groove Master]

Try playing something you know at 120 then cut the click in half (60) and preferably put the click on 2 and 4. It doesn't have to be swing. It can be straight feel but it works amazingly well when practicing the walking bass also.

 

[OllieVT]

More good stuff, thanks everyone. I'm definitely planning to turn the subdivisions back off once I get better at it---that's how it goes in the lessons, so that's what I'm trying to reach.

@dbsfgyd1, I don't understand the waltz thing. Divide each quarter note into three? The stuff I'm working on has 8th notes, but I'm not as far as triplets yet, so that seems like it'd just confuse me?

 

[SteC]

Great advice above, I usually end up tapping my foot in 8th notes at tempos like that.

 

[BigBadBen67]

I too was going to suggest counting the subdivisions in your head.

Also keep at it, this is definitely an improveable skill but improvement will come slowly.

Yep. There’s an SBL timing and groove course that talks about this with their Slow Worm exercise. Take a metronome at 20bpm and play something like a major scale over it, one note per beat. The trick is to learn to count 4 time over it as if it were 80bpm. It’s a great exercise

 

[BigBadBen67]

One of my biggest struggles at the moment is, like the title says, keeping in time with a metronome at low speeds. Like, 44-50bpm range. Just me, the metronome and the book (Ed Friedland's Hal Leonard one, but I didn't put it that thread because I thought it was a more general issue).

At faster speeds things seem OK. (Or maybe I'm out by the same percentage and just don't notice?) With the backing tracks, which have a lot more cues (and are usually faster), I'm fine. But going slowly I really struggle.

So, does anyone have tips for improving at this?

[I'm aware of the pro-metronome vs anti-metronome debate. My position for now is that my teacher is pro-metronome (esp. at this speed) and I am pro-my-teacher, which makes me pro-metronome. I want to learn this skill rather than be persuaded that it's not necessary or a good idea.]

I don’t know if there’s really debate over working with a metronome. I’ve heard the likes of Carol Kaye and Marcus Miller talk about how important it is. But what you’re talking about is really all about practice. It takes a lot of time and work to develop a good sense of timing and groove

 

[HolmeBass]

I don’t know if there’s really debate over working with a metronome. I’ve heard the likes of Carol Kaye and Marcus Miller talk about how important it is. But what you’re talking about is really all about practice. It takes a lot of time and work to develop a good sense of timing and groove

Jeff Berlin famously has problems with metronomes, but his criticisms always feel contrived. The best argument he can muster is when learning you should not use a metronome - allow yourself to play out of time. That of course is just common sense and doesn’t really explain his massive aversion to them. My takeaway is that just because someone is a great player it doesn’t necessarily mean their teaching style will work for you.

I’ll say this - metronome practice is great, but I would not use a metronome for everything I might practice. I use the ‘nome as a focussed practice tool but do a lot of things w/o it. I am a firm believer in playing along with recordings to learn stylistic and feel elements of different kinds of music.

And you should play and practice things with no guide at all - no ‘nome nor recording. Practice holding tempos and grooves without guiding references. These sessions are worth recording and analyzing to see how the tempo may have drifted without reference.