Keeping in time with a metronome at low bpm

[Derek Kay]

One thought process I have used is to deliberately try to play slightly behind the beat on slow tempos (and in front on faster tempos). That sharpened up my perception of the true tempo.

Recording your performance helps. At least you can be self-critical before someone beats you to it.

 

[jallenbass]

I've been meditating every morning for 20 minutes with the metronome on 25 bpm and clapping that pulse along with it. No subdividing. I also dropped the pulse down a click each day and got down to 10 bpm. Again, no subdividing, just sensing when the click will occur. It's been very enlightening.

 

[logdrum]

The goal of a low BPM is to actually train you to hear the subdivisions in your head. Maybe as a start but I'll wean of it ASAP. And then challenge yourself by only setting to 1 and 3 or 2 and 4, so from 60 bpm go to 30 if your metronome can do it

 

[BigBadBen67]

Jeff Berlin famously has problems with metronomes, but his criticisms always feel contrived. The best argument he can muster is when learning you should not use a metronome - allow yourself to play out of time. That of course is just common sense and doesn’t really explain his massive aversion to them. My takeaway is that just because someone is a great player it doesn’t necessarily mean their teaching style will work for you.

I’ll say this - metronome practice is great, but I would not use a metronome for everything I might practice. I use the ‘nome as a focussed practice tool but do a lot of things w/o it. I am a firm believer in playing along with recordings to learn stylistic and feel elements of different kinds of music.

And you should play and practice things with no guide at all - no ‘nome nor recording. Practice holding tempos and grooves without guiding references. These sessions are worth recording and analyzing to see how the tempo may have drifted without reference.

Sure, but Jeff Berlin is a famous contrarian so I would take anything he says with a big grain of salt.

I look at metronome training as how Carol Kaye describes it where the key is to make it groove. The metronome is fixed, perfect time. It can't groove. Your job is to make it groove. It's really about taking a time source that you don't control and learning to fit your playing to it to make it musical. That's an invaluable skill for bass playing.

The other thing I find is that no one talks about how time feel is something you have to warm up, just as much as any other aspect of your playing. I've had it happen any number of times where I'm trying to cut a track and I'm just not in the pocket. I have that feeling where I know I can do better. Usually if I take a break and do 20 minutes of timing exercises I come back and play better.

 

[LowendG]

It's certainly a good thing to practice! Most people rush a little I find.
I played with a reggae/dub soundsystem for a while--it was just live bass, vocalists, and everything else was recorded, live dub mixing. Slooow, spaced-out, dubby grooves. This was old school - there was no click to play to. The mixer would sometimes mute everything but the bass and the vocals (or sometimes EVERYTHING but the bass) whilst dubbing things out, and I kept playing the bass line. Then when he hit "unmute" on the drums, etc I had to be right on the money. A good challenge for sure, really forced me to feel the time internally.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

More good stuff, thanks everyone. I'm definitely planning to turn the subdivisions back off once I get better at it---that's how it goes in the lessons, so that's what I'm trying to reach.

@dbsfgyd1, I don't understand the waltz thing. Divide each quarter note into three? The stuff I'm working on has 8th notes, but I'm not as far as triplets yet, so that seems like it'd just confuse me?

There was not a lot of information given in your original post one what you were tying to accomplish other than trying to get a steady tempo at 40-50 BPM. There was no mention of working on 8th note runs. However subdivide as you wish.

 

[Klangfarbe]

Counting out loud with subdivisions.



I know, it's annoying. Everybody hates it, but everyone who stopped being annoyed and started counting loud got better rhythm/ time.

Still not convinced? Let's see what Tabla players have to say about it.

Student telling us the secret in the first 5 seconds of the video? Must be a liar, or is he?



Indian tabla teacher.



Indian Bass players do it too.

 

[srosenthal13]

I never realized there was a "controversy" or "debate" about practicing with a metronome until I came to TalkBass.

I'll stick my neck out and say that the overwhelming majority of working bass players on this site would have zero respect for any drummer who was adamant about never practicing with a met. Would you join a band with that guy? Hire him for a gig? Doubtful.

It's just a tool, but it's crucial for developing muscle control, whether that's with a pair of sticks in your hands or a or a bass -- or any other instrument. It's also a yardstick for guiding your brain as to whether you need to lay back or speed up to be in time.

The suggestions to start with subdivisions are spot on. That's how you're going to train your body to operate physically at the chosen tempos.

The suggestions to eventually back out the subdivisions are also spot on. That's how you're going to take what you've done using subdivisions and internalize them. The Mind part of the equation.

One of the best excercises you can do for the Mind part is a click ON-click OFF loop pattern. Start with 4 bars of click ON. Then, after you've settled in, turn off the click on the last measure. Now you're playing 3 on, 1 off. If you come back on the 1 of the click, you're in time. Keep dropping click bars until you're down to 1 on, 3 off. You can increase the length of the loop as much as you want but the principle is the same. Some metronomes/apps can do this, but it can be done using a drum machine or DAW. But you need the physical control first.

I don't think anyone here would downplay the importance of ear training to understand pitch intervals. Don't downplay the importance of time training to understand how to feel time intervals.

 

[walking_line]

Yeah, I’ll echo the sentiment that I wasn’t aware that there was a controversy about metronome use. I’d be pretty wary of any player or teacher who suggested that there’s no benefit.

Metronome work, especially for novice musicians, is crucial. If you can’t play a rhythmic figure with the metronome, you can’t play it correctly, straight up.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Play along with some Pink Floyd tunes, Nick Mason was the best “slow” drummer of all time. Another way is to just set the metronome for double speed and play to every other “click”. You’ll get used to it pretty quick. One more method is to set an echo pedal on long delay and try to work on some slap/back patterns. Lots of ways to practice this.

 

[pfschim]

Ed Friedland specifically has the met drop out for one or more bars at any tempo which forces you to internalize the subdivisions and figure out a way to get tempo/time in your head. Keeping the subdivisions on the met are fine to start out with, but this will not really help you internalize tempo/time.
I also notice that most killer time keepers have a pretty physical aspect to time keeping ... in their body, and famously with "bass neck" like Pino, Joe Dart and Jaco.

It's a great skill to work on and even seasoned players benefit from spending time on this kind of exercise.

Good luck OP, keep at it, you'll get it!

 

[brianrost]

One of my biggest struggles at the moment is, like the title says, keeping in time with a metronome at low speeds. At faster speeds things seem OK. (Or maybe I'm out by the same percentage and just don't notice?)

If you can’t play it slow, you can’t play it fast. Yes, you are fooling yourself that you are in time at the faster tempo. Just keep at it.

Do not increase the tempo until you can play it cold at the current tempo.

 

[David A. Davis]

I use SuperMetronome. It allows you to progressively decrease the tempo down to 40 bpm. Great app.

 

[Jazzdogg]

Listening to a bunch of recordings by Shirley Horn will give you an enormous respect for musicians capable of playing or singing slowly at a very high level of competence. Total immersion for awhile can help the pulse of slow beats Imprint on your musical soul.

 

[OllieVT]

Update. One week on and I'm seeing improvements. I've worked quite intensively on this for the last week. I'd say that this is all I've done, except that I need to be playing something that needs the timekeeping so I've unavoidably been learning/practising other stuff too. But my focus has been on improving this skill.

I'm still a long way from perfect but it's now about at the same level as the rest of my playing, rather than sticking out as a factor that is obviously worse. I'll keep working at it.

As a bonus, I've just realised that my monthly lessons are five weeks apart this month rather than the four I had thought, so this last week feels like a free improvement!

Thanks everyone.

 

[Groove Doctor]

I've been meditating every morning for 20 minutes with the metronome on 25 bpm and clapping that pulse along with it. No subdividing. I also dropped the pulse down a click each day and got down to 10 bpm. Again, no subdividing, just sensing when the click will occur. It's been very enlightening.

Excellent point. Being relaxed, & mindfulness are essential too.

Metronomes made me develop a relaxed focus on my time. I used to speed up or play ahead of the beat.

Finding MY centre allowed me to find the centre of the beat & ‘burying the metronome’ comes automatic to me now.