• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Keeping levels just under clipping when recording?

Everything I've read suggests keeping your peak levels between -20 and -12 db in your DAW, but what about the level going into the audio interface?

I run my signal from the XLR out on my amp into my audio interface. Should I aim to keep my peaks just under clipping as they enter the interface, or again aim for peaks in the -20 to -12 range?

Are there advantages to tone either way?
 
Record at a lower level then remix and boost the levels at the end.

If you make it too hot too soon and it distorts you can never get the distortion out. But if you record at lower levels and then make it a hot mix at the end of the process then you have more control and if it gets too hot and distorts then you can always go back to an earlier version that is not distorted.
 
get the best highest gain / none clipping signal that you can .. you CAN NOT clip while in the digital world !!
if everything is analog , you could get away with a few overages ... digital - never ... but if you record it to soft / low , then the signal to noise can be an issue when you try to crank it later .. ! when you turn the volume up the noise level rises ... then noise gates are needed .. ! ? so why not compress or limit the signal while initially recording .. ?
 
If you are having trouble with clipped signal, use pads on mics or at your preamp.
turn down or pull the mic further way. Condensers are super sensitive to distance and input level.

Make sure you are going into the right input on your interface.
+ 4 professional level XLR out from your rig, may need an XLR to TRS adapter cable so you go into your interface 1/4" -10 dB line input.
That should increase working headroom.

As you are surely seeing, tracking bass takes a much more precise, even touch than playing live.

I tracked with my AT4050 on the Reeves 225 into Logic -12, -20, -32 dB depending on how loud the part was
and pad settings on mic and preamp.

Don't be surprised if your grindy mid rangy live tone doesn't translate well tracking.
If there's a lot of distortion in the guitar tones, sometimes its better to lay down a fat smooth foundation bass line rather than
adding more grit.

I had to re-learn everything about input volumes going DAW.
Test your track with compression on input and then tracked where you add compression and gain only on playback.
See which sounds better.

Enjoy, take your time, test track until you're getting the sound you want.
Keep a log of your settings on sound source and inputs.
 
In digital recording, the bit rate determines the dynamic range available. 24 bit is high enough that you can record with the peaks at a lower level to ensure you never clip, yet still be able to add gain back later. Since digital clipping is so nasty, this allows you to record with the peaks low enough to never hit clipping, yet still preserve your signal.
 
Digital and analog recording mediums have opposite issues with headroom and noise floor, which is where most of the concerns over input level originate, and they're often confused. Analog mediums typically have a very high noise floor (hiss, etc. when the input volume is very low) and a more pleasant compression/distortion along a curve with high input volume (subjectively) and digital mediums typically have a very unpleasant sudden hard clipping at high input volume and very low noise floor (excluding any signal noise somewhere else in the recording chain). The general advise that was always given with analog recording medium is the one you're referencing, to increase input gain until the signal clips and then trim the gain back slightly. This is still assuming you want some tape saturation, which not everyone wanted/wants. There were always recording engineers trying to get the most high fidelity recording possible, trying to minimize both saturation and tape hiss, associated with bouncing down tracks a lot. When I first transitioned from analog to digital I read an interview with Elliot Mazer (Neil Young's frequent recording/mix engineer), who gave a breakdown of how he changed his standard operating procedures and assumptions about signal flow and gain staging to get the best out of digital formats. He discussed the thing about the metering being very different between digital and analog and how one should leave much more headroom for digital recording and not be concerned with the noise floor. I still hear/read a lot of people saying that you shouldn't record at too low of an input gain because of noise floor, clock noise and a bunch of other things that generally aren't a concern, assuming you don't have some other issue with noise from a piece of outboard gear that has nothing to do with the DAW. As soon as I took the advice of tracking with an input gain no higher than -12dB, it drastically improved my recording. The great advantage of digital formats is the ability to add incredible amounts of gain with very little signal noise, compared to multitracking and bouncing on tape, where whatever amount of signal noise you do have is multiplied as you go.

The exact amount of headroom is somewhat subjective, it's best to just try things out and see how it fares for you. I've fluctuated over the years and used as little as -6dB to -12dB or more of headroom while tracking (at peak level). Sometimes it depends on the source, especially if it has a particularly low RMS and high peak. There's so much more that figures into everything once you start mixing, but I've never run into an issue of having too little available volume and I routinely track at a peak of -12dB.

TLDR: Between -6 to -12dB peak input gain is preferable for digital recording. You don't want to get anywhere near clipping. It's much more practical to add volume than try to remove digital clipping.
 
  • Like
Reactions: QweziRider
Into the interface you want the cleanest signal at the highest level before the preamp clips leaving headroom for peaks. This can be a distorted signal mind you. You just want to get it into the interface cleanly with the best signal to noise ratio. Signal to noise matters in the analog realm. If you put a low level signal that does not mask the inherent noise in your input chain and boost the recorded level later you also boost that noise/hiss. In the digital realm you want to peak around -6. But you can go much lower if you want to be safe and then boost that later with no noise issues because the noise floor in the digital realm is so low.
 
Record at a 24-bit depth. When recording digitally, don't focus on the headroom, focus on the noise floor.

First I'm assuming your gear is good enough quality such that when you run just your interface into your computer with no source (no mic or instrument) into the interface, you have a quiet system. You can check this by setting your recording software's meter range to show the very low signals. Arm a track for recording with no source and check the noise floor.

Then plug in your source but don't play anything. The noise floor should increase. If it doesn't, turn up the source gain until the noise floor rises above that of your recording system with no source.

Here's the important point: once your noise floor with the source is greater than the recording system's noise floor, increasing the input level provides no other benefit. Think about that for a second. Increasing the gain any further is simply wasting some of those 24 bits of dynamic range.

Suppose your noise floor with the source connected is at -90db. It doesn't matter if the recorded signal is peaking at only -40db, your dynamic range is 50db. If you increase the input gain so your noise floor is now at -70db, your signal will now peak at -20db. Your recording is no better, but you've reduced your headroom by 20db. You can always increase the signal volume after tracking.

Follow this process and you will never have to worry about clipping while tracking. You don't have to use compression while tracking. Just record a nice clean signal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: elBandito
Also remember that analog stages may exhibit sonic degradation (often described as edgy, glassy, brittle sounding) at levels somewhat below those that actually cause clipping, so you often get better sound by leaving a buffer and keeping analog signal peaks at least 6-8 dB below the clip point. This may result in lower S/N than the maximum achievable, but generally results in better sound.

Otto