Kemper Profiler Users Group

[Uncle Walt]

I wanted to create a place for people using the kemper profiler for bass, to exchange tips, tricks, rigs and whatnot.

I purchased a Kemper Profiler Stage about a year ago and I was extremely underwhelmed with the options for Bass profiles. Since then, I've been on a mission buying, selling and trading preamps and amps to create Kemper profiles. I've sampled most of the common and generally accessible boutique stuff eg: Jule, Noble, Arkham, Reddi, Etc. At some point, I will make all these profiles available to the general public but I haven't figured out what will be shared for free and what will be sold because I don't know what this project is going to cost me yet. In the meantime don't hesitate to hit me up if you want specific profiles.

Guess this makes me group member #1, I hope to hear from some fellow Kemper fans!

 

[quickervicar]

I do not own a Kemper (yet) but I will be watching this space.

 

[Analogeezer]

I wanted to create a place for people using the kemper profiler for bass, to exchange tips, tricks, rigs and whatnot.

I purchased a Kemper Profiler Stage about a year ago and I was extremely underwhelmed with the options for Bass profiles. Since then, I've been on a mission buying, selling and trading preamps and amps to create Kemper profiles. I've sampled most of the common and generally accessible boutique stuff eg: Jule, Noble, Arkham, Reddi, Etc. At some point, I will make all these profiles available to the general public but I haven't figured out what will be shared for free and what will be sold because I don't know what this project is going to cost me yet. In the meantime don't hesitate to hit me up if you want specific profiles.

Guess this makes me group member #1, I hope to hear from some fellow Kemper fans!

Say can you answer some question(s) about how these things work?

You use the term "sampled" which in the keyboard synth world means sampling discrete sounds and mapping them to a keyboard/synth which then processes these sounds with filters, amplifiers and other processing "modules" within the device.

BUT a sample is somewhat "static" as sampled, you can sample a bunch of notes but it's still just a recording of that one note. The turning it into something useful happens when you use the keyboard to process that static sample, to include modulation.

My understanding of the Kemper and other similar devices is they use physical modeling to create the sounds, modeling exists in the keyboard world but the modeling part usually starts with modeling of an oscillator, you don't need to "sample" a sound to create a sound.

So this Kemper thing I hear the phrase "sampling" and "profiles" but I get the impression you record a "sample" then the box takes that sample and "models" it into an amp model? I mean otherwise you are just recording some notes from your bass and rig.

Also if you are "sampling" into this thing, how does that work? You play the amp in a room, mic it up and then send that signal to the Kemper?

Seems like the quality of pre-made profiles out there would depend on the skill of the person recording them, the mic used, the mic techniques used, the room, etc.

The end result is one man's SVT is not going to sound like another man's SVT but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Finally "raw sampling" in the keyboard world is actually a ton of work, which is why most people no longer do it. It was cool in the 80's when all you needed/wanted was an orchestra hit or a choir sound but these days there are so many pre-rolled sample libraries and analog synth modeling and real analog synths, etc. the demand for sampling has kind of fallen by the wayside.

Still used in film and TV production of course but not so much by musicians anymore.

I take it this Kemper box takes a lot of the work out of creating the models? You send it a sound and it does mostly the rest of it?

Best of luck with your project, it sounds like a lot of work but rewarding at the end.

Analogeezer

 

[Uncle Walt]

If def not "sampled" I just used that word for flavor.

The Kemper creates profiles by sending a series of test tones to an amp and then listening to what it receives back via a mic or direct input. It then uses machine learning to compare the tones it sent with the tones it receives back to understand the difference, whether it's harmonic info, distortion, compression, EQ, etc. It then creates a profile that applies those modifications to the input signal essentially copying the sound of the profiled device live in real-time.

Profiling an amp is super simple you just send the signal to the amp via the FX loop and then return via a Mic/Pre or direct from an amp level DI box like the countryman 81 or the Kemper DI. I profile a lot of bass preamps and boost pedals where all you need is an impedance switcher at the return. It takes about 2 minutes to capture a single profile.

Hope that helps.

Say can you answer some question(s) about how these things work?

You use the term "sampled" which in the keyboard synth world means sampling discrete sounds and mapping them to a keyboard/synth which then processes these sounds with filters, amplifiers and other processing "modules" within the device.

BUT a sample is somewhat "static" as sampled, you can sample a bunch of notes but it's still just a recording of that one note. The turning it into something useful happens when you use the keyboard to process that static sample, to include modulation.

My understanding of the Kemper and other similar devices is they use physical modeling to create the sounds, modeling exists in the keyboard world but the modeling part usually starts with modeling of an oscillator, you don't need to "sample" a sound to create a sound.

So this Kemper thing I hear the phrase "sampling" and "profiles" but I get the impression you record a "sample" then the box takes that sample and "models" it into an amp model? I mean otherwise you are just recording some notes from your bass and rig.

Also if you are "sampling" into this thing, how does that work? You play the amp in a room, mic it up and then send that signal to the Kemper?

Seems like the quality of pre-made profiles out there would depend on the skill of the person recording them, the mic used, the mic techniques used, the room, etc.

The end result is one man's SVT is not going to sound like another man's SVT but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Finally "raw sampling" in the keyboard world is actually a ton of work, which is why most people no longer do it. It was cool in the 80's when all you needed/wanted was an orchestra hit or a choir sound but these days there are so many pre-rolled sample libraries and analog synth modeling and real analog synths, etc. the demand for sampling has kind of fallen by the wayside.

Still used in film and TV production of course but not so much by musicians anymore.

I take it this Kemper box takes a lot of the work out of creating the models? You send it a sound and it does mostly the rest of it?

Best of luck with your project, it sounds like a lot of work but rewarding at the end.

Analogeezer

 

[Analogeezer]

If def not "sampled" I just used that word for flavor.

The Kemper creates profiles by sending a series of test tones to an amp and then listening to what it receives back via a mic or direct input. It then uses machine learning to compare the tones it sent with the tones it receives back to understand the difference, whether it's harmonic info, distortion, compression, EQ, etc. It then creates a profile that applies those modifications to the input signal essentially copying the sound of the profiled device live in real-time.

Profiling an amp is super simple you just send the signal to the amp via the FX loop and then return via a Mic/Pre or direct from an amp level DI box like the countryman 81 or the Kemper DI. I profile a lot of bass preamps and boost pedals where all you need is an impedance switcher at the return. It takes about 2 minutes to capture a single profile.

Hope that helps.

Helps a lot, a very good, succinct answer to my question(s). THANKS! Very informative, I totally understand how it works now.

Does the Kemper DI (which is $120, not expensive for a DI) bring any special mojo to the party over say a Countryman, Radial or other high quality DI?

This kind of thing (a profiling amp) is not my particular bottle of jam, but I can see the appeal. In particular they would be great for situations like recording where you want to offer or have a wide variety of amp sounds.

The Kemper seems to be aimed at guitar players (based on the control panel) but I suppose it doesn't really care what you feed it right? A profile is a profile.

I do like the front panel layout and how different controls use different styles of knobs, very easy to use it would seem.

A while back there was a thread about why isn't everyone using these devices and someone said Kemper should offer a touch screen interface instead of a bunch of knobs. To me the knobs are what make the product really, it allows you do interact with the device like it's you know, AN AMP not an iPad.

Analogeezer

 

[xchristopherx]

I have a kemper and I just got a pair of darkglass 2x12 cabs. So I'm probably just gonna buy a bunch of profiles over the next couple weeks and give them a shot to start. Kemper for the bass seems to be a space where the unit is very capable but unfortunately not covered too heavily on the internet. At least not anything in depth, I'm seeing a lot of very superficial quick blurbs. so I will gladly share my findings here once I'm kind of dialed in.

 

[Uncle Walt]

I have a kemper and I just got a pair of darkglass 2x12 cabs. So I'm probably just gonna buy a bunch of profiles over the next couple weeks and give them a shot to start. Kemper for the bass seems to be a space where the unit is very capable but unfortunately not covered too heavily on the internet. At least not anything in depth, I'm seeing a lot of very superficial quick blurbs. so I will gladly share my findings here once I'm kind of dialed in.

I run mine into a Berg IP112 with an HT112 extension. I love it. I'll PM me your email address and I send you a link to my extensive Kemper rig library.

 

[Analogeezer]

I saw an old (well two months ago or so) SNL and a guitar player used one of these Kempers, I guess it was a powered head because it was on top of an Orange 4 x 12" cab.

I say guitar "player" sorta because the band was Young Thug and the guitar player and bass player mainly just stood and jumped around for most of the tune, so I have no idea of what the Kemper actually sounded like, not much actual playing going on, just the usual background loops.

The bass player had an Ampeg rig, but it had been recovered in Orange vinyl to match the guitar player's actual Orange brand cabinet.

Analogeezer

 

[Uncle Walt]

I saw an old (well two months ago or so) SNL and a guitar player used one of these Kempers, I guess it was a powered head because it was on top of an Orange 4 x 12" cab.

I say guitar "player" sorta because the band was Young Thug and the guitar player and bass player mainly just stood and jumped around for most of the tune, so I have no idea of what the Kemper actually sounded like, not much actual playing going on, just the usual background loops.

The bass player had an Ampeg rig, but it had been recovered in Orange vinyl to match the guitar player's actual Orange brand cabinet.

Analogeezer

That guy is Tim Stuart he's played guitar for American Idol and Lady Gaga for a long time.

 

[xchristopherx]

Messed around with these new cabs for a bit today. Very pleased with them.

 

[Analogeezer]

That guy is Tim Stuart he's played guitar for American Idol and Lady Gaga for a long time.

Not casting dispersion on the guy's playing, but he wasn't playing much and neither was the bass player. Kind of like they would jump around and then do some crunchy bits for effect then not play again.

Not their fault, it was what they were getting paid to do by "the artist".

The main thing for me was "oh wow, someone using one of those Kemper heads" then it was mostly inaudible.

I suppose for playing a lot of different styles with a lot of different employers a rig like that is actually a great tool for the job.

Analogeezer

 

[Analogeezer]

Well I was watching this documentary about Gordon Lightfoot (yes how is that bass related LOL) and found out "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" was recorded on a prototype of the 3M digital 32 track machine.

Recorded in December of 1975, that machine was not released commercially for three years. At that time it cost an eye watering $115,000! (probably $300,000 today).

So how is this related to the Kemper profiler? Well I wound up on this thread on Gearspace talking about these machines and the producer Michael Wagener (yes THAT guy) was commenting in the thread about being an early user of the 3M digital 32 track.

At the end of his post (from 2017) he said this:

On the guitar side I have 100% moved to the Invalid Link Removed, best piece of gear that walked into my studio in the last 15 years.

So that sounds like a ringing endorsement!

Analogeezer

 

[gscroggin]

I wanted to create a place for people using the kemper profiler for bass, to exchange tips, tricks, rigs and whatnot.

@Uncle Walt , still have your Kemper and still interested in taking this thread somewhere? If so I'll start posting stuff ;-) I've had a Kemper for a few years now and while I'm no expert, I've learned quite a bit. I've been using it on bass, guitar, keyboards, post processing, even some acoustic guitar stuff live (well, just before COVID).

 

[jshinal]

Can you create a bass amp model by starting with something like a simple Fender Twin and changing the values of the EQ stack and coupling capacitors to let more lows through ? Can you change output tube models and stiffen power supplies ? That kind of adjusting could be extremely interesting.

 

[gscroggin]

Can you create a bass amp model by starting with something like a simple Fender Twin and changing the values of the EQ stack and coupling capacitors to let more lows through ? Can you change output tube models and stiffen power supplies ? That kind of adjusting could be extremely interesting.

No, because the Kemper isn't a modeler. What you describe is more like what an AxeFX, Bias, or some other modeling software can do. The Kemper is based around capturing the signal chain of real hardware, through a process called profiling. Once you have something profiled you can definitely tweak or enhance it in ways that you maybe couldn't with just that one object (amp, cab, effect), and you can string objects together to make a virtual "rig", but it will still retain that/those object(s) at its essence. You could profile a Fender Twin and change things afterward with the EQ and signal chain to make it sound different, but it's still going to be based on a Fender Twin at whatever settings you had it on during the profile, whatever tubes and speakers were in it, etc.

 

[jshinal]

Great explanation of the difference. Thanks.

 

[Bulltrout]

If anyone wants an acoustic 360/361 profile or a Traynor YBA3A profile, feel free to DM me. I profiled mine.

 

[seamonkey]

Speaking of Kemper
This is a hilarious, clever, and talented youtube channel


They produced their 2022 videos using their pedals with Kemper and Helix and nobody caught on.

 

[synterx]

Picking up a powered toaster tomorrow. I also have a Fractal FM3. I'm old and have been using my RH750 TC forever. Since going to in ears 18 months ago, I've been trying various ways to get killer sound in my ears. Various DIs, preamps. Next up is the Kemper. I suspect it's more my style than the fractal. So I'll probably start posting here about how I get on with it.

 

[Anthony Buckeridge]

In the summer I had an emergency operation and am waiting another operation in the new year. Thank the Lord, all is well!

Being unable to lift anything for quite a while, especially very heavy items and with 15 heavy amps stored, it seemed that the Kemper amp was an ideal solution.

So, I now have an ever growing amount of Kemper gear and hope to get more, but I am very much in the learning curve regarding the equipment at this time, as I am primarily focussed on getting fit and healthy.


Before I chose the Kemper, I sent an E-mail to the company asking questions.

I do this before committing to equipment to see how customer responsive companies are.

By all accounts they have been exemplary in regards to direct customer service and what is more, they seem to be extremely nice people to deal with indeed. The Kemper forum overflows with very nice, tremendously helpful people too.

What is more, the owner and designer of the equipment turns up on the forum. There are a few companies like this where the top people in the company are in close touch with their customers. RME is another. But it speaks volumes for the high values driving this company, that it is so.

It will take a while for me to learn to use this gear and profile all my amps, as opposed to playing about having fun, but I am understandably not worried about that at the moment. The Kemper is a very much better designed, well thought through device than most could ever imagine. Far more sophisticated and complex when you start to delve deeply, than first appeared to be the case. Straightforward to use, but capable of much more than anticipated.

I am delighted that a Kemper Users Group has been formed here, though alas, I fear I will prove to be its weakest and humblest member for reasons explained above.