• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

KEY TO WALKING

#81
"Everything is on the one." You can go outside on beats 2, 3, 4, so long as it leads smoothly the downbeat of the next measure. If walking bass is a "garden" neatly arranged in 4-beat "rows" and the downbeat is the "seed," then I like to think of beats 2, 3, 4 as the "roots" of the next measure's downbeat (not as the "fruit" of the current measure's downbeat).

In other words, if jazz were a plant, it grows backwards in time from where it's going (not forward in time from where it's been).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spidey2112
#83
CatOnTheBass said:
"Everything is on the one." You can go outside on beats 2, 3, 4, so long as it leads smoothly the downbeat of the next measure. If walking bass is a "garden" neatly arranged in 4-beat "rows" and the downbeat is the "seed," then I like to think of beats 2, 3, 4 as the "roots" of the next measure's downbeat (not as the "fruit" of the current measure's downbeat).

In other words, if jazz were a plant, it grows backwards in time from where it's going (not forward in time from where it's been).
Click to expand...
I was with you up to the plant growing backward part... :wacky:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hectobar and CatOnTheBass
#84
noeinstein said:
My question came from listening to Bob Cranshaw’s great work on The Sidewinder, a Lee Morgan tune I’ve always loved. I guess I heard it with new ears.
Click to expand...
That’s interesting. Totally great bass work on that tune, but it’s not a walking bass line at all - Cranshaw is playing mostly in two, hitting the tonic on the first beat and the fifth on the third beat, with syncopated notes in between. I’d characterize that tune as more of a straight eighth soul jazz or boogaloo kind of feel, as opposed to the swing feel mostly associated with walking bass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ProbablyTooLoud
#86
oren said:
That’s interesting. Totally great bass work on that tune, but it’s not a walking bass line at all - Cranshaw is playing mostly in two, hitting the tonic on the first beat and the fifth on the third beat, with syncopated notes in between. I’d characterize that tune as more of a straight eighth soul jazz or boogaloo kind of feel, as opposed to the swing feel mostly associated with walking bass.
Click to expand...
Thank you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: oren
#91
while @Wasnex referred to his own journey (re: walking), let's not forget that his overarching point was that it's not something that you can cram for, and then, voila: you're there.

it's a never-ending process of application (taking chances, stretching) and learning (what works, what doesn't, re: those chances you took!), back and forth, round and round, forever...

but if you can't wrap your head around the changes (e.g., standards, bop, other) then all of the great "feel and articulation" gets sucked away = fail! being able to play arpeggios is one way --- not having to play arpeggios is better! but the changes, contextually, unlock 'the best ways'. key concept: there are lots of "best ways!"

also, great feel (and articulation) lets your bandmates know that you can swing, but getting to the right notes at the right time lets them know that you can play....and, maybe more importantly: who's in charge! :D

there is no substitute for experience = you must start getting experience! once you start = you'll never stop! and you'll know that you're making progress when you're spending less time being lost! :laugh:

noeinstein said:
What is the key that unlocked walking bass for you?
Click to expand...
playing walking bass! ;)

dive in, play with others! if you dive into the deep end with others who are more experienced: they won't let you 'drown' even if they let you take on a few gulps first (it's all experience!). :roflmao:

assuming you have a metronome/click (always on 2 and 4!):
a piano or keyboard + a real book = every 'safe' note for walking bass.
a piano or keyboard + a real book + your experience and ears = all the best notes for walking bass!

books are a good starting point as you can get 'permission' from books. but getting some experience with others (especially more experienced players) trumps all of the books, helps you nail down the 'feel' thing, and teaches you more/better notes, all at once!

good luck with the walking bass thing --- it's a gas! :thumbsup:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tuur, Hectobar, badinage and 5 others
#92
JRA said:
while @Wasnex referred to his own journey (re: walking), let's not forget that his overarching point was that it's not something that you can cram for, and then, voila: you're there.

it's a never-ending process of application (taking chances, stretching) and learning (what works, what doesn't, re: those chances you took!), back and forth, round and round, forever...

but if you can't wrap your head around the changes (e.g., standards, bop, other) then all of the great "feel and articulation" gets sucked away = fail! being able to play arpeggios is one way --- not having to play arpeggios is better! but the changes, contextually, unlock 'the best ways'. key concept: there are lots of "best ways!"

also, great feel (and articulation) lets your bandmates know that you can swing, but getting to the right notes at the right time lets them know that you can play....and, maybe more importantly: who's in charge! :D

there is no substitute for experience = you must start getting experience! once you start = you'll never stop! and you'll know that you're making progress when you're spending less time being lost! :laugh:


playing walking bass! ;)

dive in, play with others! if you dive into the deep end with others who are more experienced: they won't let you 'drown' even if they let you take on a few gulps first (it's all experience!). :roflmao:

assuming you have a metronome/click (always on 2 and 4!):
a piano or keyboard + a real book = every 'safe' note for walking bass.
a piano or keyboard + a real book + your experience and ears = all the best notes for walking bass!

books are a good starting point as you can get 'permission' from books. but getting some experience with others (especially more experienced players) trumps all of the books, helps you nail down the 'feel' thing, and teaches you more/better notes, all at once!

good luck with the walking bass thing --- it's a gas! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
I’ve always been a little confused about which real book to use. I could use the bass clef version but I could also construct baselines over the changes in the treble clef version. Any advice?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop and JRA
#93
noeinstein said:
I’ve always been a little confused about which real book to use. I could use the bass clef version but I could also construct baselines over the changes in the treble clef version. Any advice?
Click to expand...
sure!

the real book I (the 6th edition is widely available, e.g., on amazon). and you don't need the bass clef version. there are several reasons why i'd get the "C" book (edit: treble, for guitarists and piano players), but the biggest reason is for 'sharing' purposes, i.e., anyone in the band can read from the C book.

it's not definitive by any means, but it's the best, all-around place to start --- everyone, everywhere, knows something from that book. good luck! :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop, Wasnex, Spidey2112 and 1 other person
#94
noeinstein said:
What is the key that unlocked walking bass for you?
Click to expand...

Listening to great bassists who can lay down a rock-solid walking line, e.g., Ray Brown - really listening to how the lines they play interact with chorded instruments and set up the phrases that follow.

Owning the time, and knowing when to play ahead of, behind, or on the beat.

Playing walking lines in all twelve keys.

Playing SLOWLY until you're error-free; only after this do you worry about playing at tempo or adding embellishments.

Personally, I'd rather hear or play a simple line with impeccable time than hear someone showing off their chops and making the song stop swinging.

Walking is how bassists make the entire band groove by laying a solid foundation your fellow musicians can build upon.

We can drive the band and make it swing, or we can lose track of the form and make the band and the audience suffer.

Play the music, not the instrument.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop, Spidey2112 and noeinstein
#95
noeinstein said:
I’ve always been a little confused about which real book to use. I could use the bass clef version but I could also construct baselines over the changes in the treble clef version. Any advice?
Click to expand...

I second what @JRA said. Get the C treble version.

Nothing wrong with getting the bass version, other than the C version is far more useful IMHO. AFAIK the bass version does not write out any more of the bass lines than the C version. FYI, jazz lead sheets typically write out only the melody and chords. There are a few exception in the Real Book, but not many.

If you decide to get the bass version, consider getting the C treble version as well. If you want to learn and practice the melodies...IMHO, it's actually a good idea to learn to read treble clef.

In all honesty, real jazzers don't need a fake book. But if you are going to fake it, it is nice to be able to share a book. Guitar and piano read out of the C book. In my experience most horn players who perform jazz are pretty much equally at home in C and their native key...so they can read off a C book as well. I have only seen a handful of Bb books in my career, and even fewer Eb books. I have seen fragments of a C bass cleff book. It was in pieces.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JRA, Hectobar and DJ Bebop
#98
GastonD said:
Good suggestion! Interestingly enough, I mentioned this exact topic (and resource) in a post from a month ago, here:
Based in Bass: Take a walk
Click to expand...

Excellent! I'm glad to see Tomasz get some love. I remember taking the course as it was released week-by-week on YT and thinking all along what a wonderful resource we have here. That's why anytime someone is looking for direction/lessons re: walking bass I always point them towards Tomasz and his free walking bass course.
 
  • Like
Reactions: oldandbold, GastonD and noeinstein

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back