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Keyboard bassist - what the hell is he doing!?!

#22
As stated this is a common problem, especially in church. Although I have written blogs criticizing keyboard players for this type of playing, there may be another side. Depending on your skill level, they may be playing things they want to hear you play. Also they could be looking for more activity in your bass lines. You might want to let them play by themselves, tape it and analyze to see if there is something you can learn from them. Or tape both of you playing and listen together so they can hear how bad it sounds. Are they the band leader?, if so that is another issue because you need to find out what they want and try and give it to them. If I hear a keyboard player playing bass I refuse to punish the listener, especially in church, I will stop playing, two bass players equals mud and confusion. Communicate.
 
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#23
We had a sit-in keyboardist at one show(not sure if it was an audition). When he started the bass hand thing our singer walked over and said "Look, he(pointing at me) plays bass in this band...not you. Stay out of his territory".
Fixed.
 
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#25
I'm surprized no one suggested to work with the piano player to come up with lines that he sometimes carry the bottom and sometime it is the bass so in places that the piano lead the botton, the bass is freed to play higher ...
No ?
 
#26
Clef_de_fa said:
I'm surprized no one suggested to work with the piano player to come up with lines that he sometimes carry the bottom and sometime it is the bass so in places that the piano lead the botton, the bass is freed to play higher ...
No ?
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Just more stuff to remember to do and instantly restricts every song. "Is this the song where you carry the bassline? No I thought you were..." blah blah...
 
#27
Spin Doctor said:
Just more stuff to remember to do and instantly restricts every song. "Is this the song where you carry the bassline? No I thought you were..." blah blah...
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Just have a sheet of paper and write it down ! practice it ! when it is reharsal everything will work perfectly ! It isn't hard at all to remember.

Unless you never play the same thing twice
 
#28
Clef_de_fa said:
Just have a sheet of paper and write it down ! practice it ! when it is reharsal everything will work perfectly ! It isn't hard at all to remember.

Unless you never play the same thing twice
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They already have a bass player. They don't need the keyboard to carry the bass - if he can learn to stay off the bass notes for one song, he can do it for all of them. What they need, is for him to learn to play his instrument. Wasting time with all that arranging and coming up with crutches is just that. Wasting time.

And no, personally, I don't want to have to commit to playing every song the same way if I'm not feeling it that way. My band has maybe two set pieces out of 60 songs. The rest, anything can happen, when the vibe flows one way or another. But it depends on the band, of course.
 
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#30
Cougar said:
Guys,

OK - so I play church music with a keyboard guy and me on bass. The keyboard player likes to go into the bass register and play his own baseline. The problem is, even though I play root notes ONLY, his bas line (he likes to play walking basslines) and mine do not sound good together (lots of dissonance). So I have to keep reminding him not to play bass when we play together!!! However, I notice that when he plays alone, his baseline sounds OK - not dissonant. The question that I have is this: why is that whenI play a baseline with just root notes and he plays his baseline at the same time we get dissonance, but when he plays his bassline alone, it sounds OK? I would think that if he was playing wrong notes in the baseline, you would still get dissonance even when he plays alone because they would still clash with the chord root notesCougar
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The answer is simple. He needs to get out of the bassregister and let you do your job. The reason why this happens is because you are getting a phase affect because their is no way that the keyboard can be in exact tune with your basswhile playing. Try having him hit a low note say a low g and you hit the same note, if you get a vibration y'all are not exactly in tune. If you get no vibration tryin bendindig the string a little and causing it to get a little out of tune you will feel th dissonance or phase effect.im not saying you are out of tune but in the process of playing your bass, a little accidentalstring bending will bring you out of tune a little. It's not your fault. Even the best bass players do it from time to time. Their is only one answer to the problem. The keyboard player MUSTstay out of the bass area with his left hand
 
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#31
Experienced a bit of this at last night's gig so......whenever he took a solo I returned the favor by pretending we were RUSH and I just had to play very busy basslines while keeping the drummer's time and dance floor happy. Our B/L has already corrected one sit-in keysman before so I let him know in advance to expect busy bass and why.
 
#32
wrench45us said:
Walking lines by their nature use notes that lead to the next chord using scalar or chromatic notes that aren't necessarily 'consonant' chord tones.
Leading to the next chord often creates a certain dissonance and tension that resolves with the next chord.
It doesn't sound bad by itself because your ear is being led along to the next chord, but combined with a held root note, it's like trying to move along and hold still at the same time........
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Precisely
 
#33
I'm going to play devil's advocate and say, it sounds like the keyboardist knows the song better than you, and is able to play a more complex and authentic bass line. This is not unusual; it is common in many bands for the keyboardist to have the largest musical vocabulary, the best ear, and be the best sight reader. The thing to do in that situation is to be humble and ask the keyboardist for help. (Ignore the rude "cut off his hand" responses.) Make sure that you are both playing from the same sheet music, and that you are reading and interpreting it correctly. Or if you are learning the songs by ear, make sure you are both learning from the same recording. A final thought is that you could record the next rehearsal on your smartphone, and then bring it home and learn the keyboardist's bass lines note for note. That would really impress the music director with your hard work, and the band will sound great, too. :)
 
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#35
Even though this is a 2 year old thread and hopefully the issues have been resolved by now...

Mushroo is correct in saying that both guys should work together. Both will be able to learn from the other person if they are open to it. Otherwise one of them should be voted off because the venue and other band members are the ones truly suffering due to the decreasing audience and increasing negative reputation.
 
#36
Mushroo said:
I'm going to play devil's advocate and say, it sounds like the keyboardist knows the song better than you, and is able to play a more complex and authentic bass line. This is not unusual; it is common in many bands for the keyboardist to have the largest musical vocabulary, the best ear, and be the best sight reader. The thing to do in that situation is to be humble and ask the keyboardist for help. (Ignore the rude "cut off his hand" responses.) Make sure that you are both playing from the same sheet music, and that you are reading and interpreting it correctly. Or if you are learning the songs by ear, make sure you are both learning from the same recording. A final thought is that you could record the next rehearsal on your smartphone, and then bring it home and learn the keyboardist's bass lines note for note. That would really impress the music director with your hard work, and the band will sound great, too. :)
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Hogwash!!!
 
#38
IMO, keyboardists should NOT be playing bass or basslines if there is a bassist in the band. Period. I started a thread a while back about being fired from a band (happily I must say). Me and the keyboardist clashed a LOT. I bitched and moaned to the point, he disappeared. At first I was told it was a job thing. I get a call from the drummer saying that the band really needed a keyboardist and the that dude was coming back and they want to go in another direction in the bass department. They could have just told me from the start that dude wasn't feeling me. I was ok with being let go. The band sucked anyway. LOL. They haven't had a gig in over a year now.

But....keyboard dude just couldn't stop playing bass with his left hand. He was actually using bass patches on his keyboard. Annoyed the royal h&!! outta me!

Any keyboardist who insists on playing LHB should not be in a band.
 
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#40
5544 said:
Even though this is a 2 year old thread and hopefully the issues have been resolved by now...

Mushroo is correct in saying that both guys should work together. Both will be able to learn from the other person if they are open to it. Otherwise one of them should be voted off because the venue and other band members are the ones truly suffering due to the decreasing audience and increasing negative reputation.
Click to expand...

LOL, I missed that the thread was 2 years old! Hopefully the OP and keyboardist have sorted it out by now. ;)

I partially agree with the "keyboardist should avoid playing bass notes" opinion, if and only if, you are performing improvised, "play anything you like" music. If, on the other hand, the music is charted out (quite likely for "church music") then in my opinion there needs to be a conversation (and possibly make it a three-day conversation with the music director). It doesn't have to be confrontational, something like, "Hey, I notice we are reading the same sheet music, but playing different notes. Can we look over the chart and make sure we are in agreement what all of these notational symbols mean? Can we agree on a classic recording of this song that we can both go home and study so we are on the same page?" This might generate an interesting discussion about, for example, "slash chords" (harmony where the lowest bass note is not the root of the chord, very common in the vocabulary of praise/worship music). Piano is an inherently chordal instrument, and keyboardists often have the best knowledge of harmony. I'd treat him as an ally, not an enemy, and learn what I can from him. :)
 
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