So here's a dumb question.
Can an ordinary 1x12 be set up pointed at the floor for similar results?
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Keyboard Player Complaining About Can't Feel The Bass
- Thread starter rapidfirerob
- Start date
Can an ordinary 1x12 be set up pointed at the floor for similar results?
Plenty of Alembic players don't know what they are doing. IMO, 2x10 for this genre is weak. Berry Oakley, Lamar Williams, & Leon Wilkeson might just trip over something like this.
Ya, you need to feel the bass. This is TalkBass, nothing more to say about it.
I find I need to change my amp settings differently for every stage/room. Sometimes my bass knob is at 2:00, sometimes it’s at 9:00. So tweaking it at home or keeping it the same from venue to venue, you’re almost guaranteed to have non-ideal tone issues and lack of low end (or possibly too much low end) from time to time. Use your ears and be open to making adjustments to different rooms, and in a mix while the band is playing. Try to hear other band members input if they need something from you, but also know what you want. It has to be a compromise.
Of course, maybe your keys player is crazy. Maybe his own lows are boosted so he can’t hear yours well. Check with your other band members because it sounds like the guitarist agrees with the keyboard player, in which case you might do well to listen to them, but maybe he’s crazy too. They can also get what they want in their monitors, because you also shouldn’t sacrifice so much of your tone that if effects your performance.
that keys player should count his blessings.
I played in a band for 2 years where I had the distinct pleasure of having the bass players' 8X10 SVT right next to where I was standing playing keys. Some gigs I could hear nothing but bass and a little tinkling from the drums and guitar, and barely hear myself. of course, he was the BL so I couldn't really ask him to turn down, could I?
I played in a band for 2 years where I had the distinct pleasure of having the bass players' 8X10 SVT right next to where I was standing playing keys. Some gigs I could hear nothing but bass and a little tinkling from the drums and guitar, and barely hear myself. of course, he was the BL so I couldn't really ask him to turn down, could I?
I honestly don't know but this reminds me....back in the day (80's) I had a 18" inverted horn speaker, it did not sound clear and took a truck to move it but it shook walls.
Bump up the lows a little. Cabs flat on the floor. You need floor coupling. That will help
That Ear Box can be a lifesaver! There's a band I occasionally sub in and the drummer has some hearing loss. I started showing up with that thing and he loves it. While it might not give you the oomph you want, it does provide some clarity at a frequency that can be useful when the drummer gets lost.
Keyboard player can't hear your bass? Cut off his left hand (or tie it behind his back). Problem solved.
Just a thought -- might it actually be the thump of the kick drum he's trying to "feel" ? You could experiment with adjusting the kick and see if he's "feeling the bass" then.
I'm still stuck on "drummer that says the bass is too loud." Is this a real thing that happens? Drummers I've played with are normally on the verge of blowing monitors all the time because bass.
Keys are always loud because it helps the player to hear wrong chord voicings, but this sends stage volume into a death spiral, which sounds like what's happening. They say identifying the problem is the first step on the road to a solution, but I haven't found a solution to this one in the last decade so #shrug? I wish you luck :}
Keys are always loud because it helps the player to hear wrong chord voicings, but this sends stage volume into a death spiral, which sounds like what's happening. They say identifying the problem is the first step on the road to a solution, but I haven't found a solution to this one in the last decade so #shrug? I wish you luck :}
IMHO complaining because he can't feel the bass is absurd.Ideally the sound should be processed and balanced for different locations and users. I usually worked with a full PA that included separate monitors for each band member. My amp served as my personal monitor and if anyone wanted more bass, they asked for it to be adjusted in their monitor mix. Sometimes the audio tech told them no, because there was already way too much bass coming off the stage.
If your rig is pushing the room, the priority should be on adjusting your bass amp to balance out in the house. Creating the best mix for the audience is likely to degrade the balance on stage. The bass may be too loud for some, and not loud enough for others. There can be some reasonable concessions to give a decent balance on stage as well, but it's not really realistic to expect optimal sound everywhere.
If the keyboard player can't hear you, then a solution may be to change how the band is set up, so he can be closer to your amp.
This can still pose problems because each person has different needs and expectations. If the keyboard player moves his amp closer to you, it may result in too much keys at your listening position. I.E. there will be no way for both of you to get the mix you want, because each of you have different needs.
Pro musicians tend to understand that the sound is rarely perfect...it may not even be close. However, you don't need perfect sound to do the job, and anyone who has to have perfect sound should probably stay home and play along with recordings.
IMHO, if the keyboardist wants to feel the bass, then it should be on him to buy the necessary gear. He will need to coordinate with you to make sure the gear will work with your rig.
He could get something like an Eich BassBoard.
The BassBoard is a tactile transducer. When you feed it audio, the platform shakes. It's not totally silent, but you are unlikely to hear it over a typical bar band's stage mix.
The BassBoard is not self-powered. The keyboardist will also need some sort of an amp to drive it, so the keyboardist can adjust the intensity of the shaking. If it's not clear, this option represents a significant financial outlay. So, IMHO the chance that the keyboardist will do anything except continue to complain is unlikely.
I think communication is the first step. Try to resolve the situation with diplomacy. Some people can tolerate whining and some cannot. If it's stressing you out, then either figure out how to prevent the comments from bothering you, or figure out how to stop them.
Stopping the comments could involve securing the keyboardist cooperation or it could involve you leaving the band. If the situation get's too toxic, weigh the benefits of staying VS quitting the band. If you do decide to quit, then put in notice and try to avoid burning bridges.
If you decide to ignore the comments, make your intentions known and put down some boundaries to let the keyboard know that you intend to disregard future complaint on the matter and it's on him to work out a solution. If he chooses to escalate the level of abuse, at some point you may need to give everyone an ultimatum, either the keyboardist puts a cork in it, or one of you must leave the band. Just make sure you understand, it could be you or it could be him, and the choice is likely beyond your control.
I suggest weighing the pros and cons. How important is it for you to have this sort of musical outlet? How likely is it that you can find another opportunity that is better? The reality is most bands seem to have an abundance of dysfunctional interpersonal BS. So what are you getting from being in a band that justifies dealing with the resulting stress?
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FullumMusic
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To some extent it seems like catering to this guy is rewarding obnoxious behavior.
With that in mind, you have 2 cabs. Put one stage left, one stage right, on either side of the drummer, both way back. Then he can set his keys somewhere in front of one of your two cabs, far enough in front that he can hear and feel the bass (as in, not immediately in front of it where the sound goes under his knees.) Then you can adjust how far apart they are to adjust how much the drummer can hear.
At practice, have him set up across from the bass cab.
If he still can't feel the bass, since he's the only one in the band with this issue, request that he purchase, provide, and transport a more powerful head and two 4x10 cabs for you to play through.
The other thing i wonder is, when he practices at home, does he always play along with tunes with the volume all the way up? When people play really loud all the time, they often have a hard time "feeling" the music at any volume other than dangerously loud. Dude might just need to practice at low volumes at home so rehearsal and stage levels are a step up, not down.
With that in mind, you have 2 cabs. Put one stage left, one stage right, on either side of the drummer, both way back. Then he can set his keys somewhere in front of one of your two cabs, far enough in front that he can hear and feel the bass (as in, not immediately in front of it where the sound goes under his knees.) Then you can adjust how far apart they are to adjust how much the drummer can hear.
At practice, have him set up across from the bass cab.
If he still can't feel the bass, since he's the only one in the band with this issue, request that he purchase, provide, and transport a more powerful head and two 4x10 cabs for you to play through.
The other thing i wonder is, when he practices at home, does he always play along with tunes with the volume all the way up? When people play really loud all the time, they often have a hard time "feeling" the music at any volume other than dangerously loud. Dude might just need to practice at low volumes at home so rehearsal and stage levels are a step up, not down.
I have played in groups like this. The venue was ampless with individually controlled wedge monitors. The BL has two monitors and can only play with them CRANKED. The overall stage volume becomes an issue so we all have to turn down, except the BL. So in the end, I can barely hear myself (my monitor is turned down) because his is cranked. Very frustrating and the BL just didn't get it.
That’s good to know. I have no real world experience with the product.
Put a 215 behind him and next time he can’t feel the bass yank him by his skinny piano necktie.
Options:
Tell those clowns to grow up and do their jobs instead of bitching about your's.
Claim ADA. Tell them they must make accommodations.
(Not actually true, but they don't sound like the sharpest knives in the drawer and might just buy it.)
Buy some big ass honking 8x10 and have the keyboredist and slummer load in and out for you, from and to home and at the gigs.
Have the keyboredist get an IBM (In Butt Monitor) to "feel" the bass.
Any keyboards lows and left hand can blow any bass rig away. Tell him to learn to play with a band.
This is TalkBass after all.
This is TalkBass after all.
I got it when I was transitioning from a world of 100% in-ear stages to everything being acoustic or amp supported on stage. I had a hard time transitioning because I was so spoiled and needed to shift my mindset (ear-set?). Picked it up as a demo unit so it was pretty cheap. Nowadays in mainly sits in the gear closet, but when appropriate it's a nice little tool to have.
