Keyboards in Cover Bands - How do you do things?

[drpepper]

Just thought various people's thoughts and approaches to the topic might be interesting to discuss some.

I've noticed that cover bands can take different approaches to keyboards. I think that generally, for the weekender level, keys can be one the more difficult spots to fill but also end up being a spot that the right group can do very well without.

One route is to simply not have or seek to have keyboards and then do some combination of arranging songs to try to cover for lack of keyboards and/or limiting song selections based on instrumentation. If the subject comes up from time to time, arguments against adding keys often involve fewer moving parts meaning less effort for keeping a nice, tight and clean result and fewer mouths to feed means more in each pocket...both valid enough. I've happily played without keyboards.

Another is to have a keyboard player who can also play guitar and possibly other instruments (sax, violin...). I'm currently in a band with type of arrangement. For this band specifically, problems can come from the fact that he's not really a keyboard player who can also play guitar, he's more a guitar player who took piano lessons growing up and has enough connection to the the instrument to help out some. So, it takes care of the arguments above, but depending on the person, can mean some compromises and having the capability but at a lower level than other parts of the group.

And then there's having a dedicated keyboard player, which is the situation in another band. Assuming the skill is there, it's great in doing away with song limitations and arranging for switches. My problem here is that, in my experience, with a lot of rock tunes, this has led to there being keyboards in songs that don't have them in their original versions. A while back, I played with a guy who was real good about this...he had a good attitude about serving the song, so he'd hang back, drop out, do hand percussion when it was called for, and he had a decent overdriven guitar patch where he could throw out some chords to fill-in without being overbearing. That was nice. At the level many people are operating, a big part of playing music is for enjoyment, and sitting out a lot wouldn't be so much fun. But I have to say the result of hearing keyboards in covers where they don't belong bugs the crap out of me (doesn't seem to bother anyone else I play with to anywhere near the same degree). Currently, where that's the case, I'm not in a position to do anything about it except sulk.

So, I've experienced and seen the positives in each type of situation as well as the difficulties and frustrations that can come from each.

 

[buldog5151bass]

1. Pick your songs to fit your band, both vocal and instrument wise.

2. Get creative. I was in a band that did Don't Stop Believing without a keyboard. One guitar played the keyboard right hand, the other the guitar part.

3. Effects. Some great pedals that can cover organ and synth sounds.

 

[lowtom]

If you have parts just for chords, i would recommend the 12 step from Keith McMillen.
Easy to programm, easy to use.
Or is playing with backing track a possibilty? Could be another way to go.

 

[51PRI]

...I've noticed that cover bands can take different approaches to keyboards....Another is to have a keyboard player who can also play guitar and possibly other instruments (sax, violin...). I'm currently in a band with type of arrangement.....

That's a good arrangement. Around here finding a keyboard player at all is a challenge. I got a gig once playing keys simply because I had a keyboard.

 

[drpepper]

That's a good arrangement. Around here finding a keyboard player at all is a challenge.

I think that quality keyboard players are generally harder to find because it tends to less typically be self-taught/play-by-ear instrument, where guitarists and bassists are more likely to take that path and potentially reach higher levels of proficiency (with interest, drive and some natural inclination). IMO/E, drummers almost always truly cross that line from decent to excellent due to formal training. And nothing wrong with decent.

And yep, I play in the three situations that I mentioned, and this is probably the one I prefer most overall, but again, each one has its downsides and not having as strong of a keyboard player as we all might like is the cost.

That I personally seem to be bothered by gratuitous keyboard more than anyone else is really the only issue I have with a dedicated keyboard spot. I'm not bothered by the various impacts of having an additional band member...the value of a stronger player is worth it to me.

 

[SoCal80s]

With my last band we had a keyboard player but it made it hard to schedule things with 5 people, so when he had an argument with the singer and left the band, I thought it was probably a good thing. What I did instead is I bought a small midi controller and started covering the essential parts myself, usually intros, but even if it meant having no bass at that moment (Don't Stop Believin', Addicted to Love, Hazy Shade of Winter, etc.). I just have to decide what moments require the keys more than the bass.

You can certainly go with no keyboards at all and cover parts with the guitar or bass to some extent, but in a 4-hour show having some different sounds for people to hear is refreshing.

When we had a keyboard player, I tried to steer the band toward songs that have keys in them just because it means doing songs that other bands can't. Why do ZZ Top when everyone else does ZZ Top? Let's do some Journey, Deep Purple, Bon Jovi, etc. If you must do a song that doesn't have keys you can always add keys - organ sounds, strings and brass can fit well in almost any song.

 

[bwildt]

I think that first off, you need to decide if you want a keyboardist or a pianist. My experience has been to watch out for pianists. They are often used to playing by themselves and will tend to try to cover everyone's parts... melody, rhythm and bass. The joke of tying the pianist's left hand behind him is actually not a joke. If the band has a piano oriented, that may work OK.

I would much rather work with a keyboardist who is willing, when needed, to strip his parts down to just what is needed to fill in the holes, often using a patch other than "piano", i.e. horn parts, organ/synth pads and that kind of stuff. Make sure you get a team player.

 

[drpepper]

With my last band we had a keyboard player but it made it hard to schedule things with 5 people, so when he had an argument with the singer and left the band, I thought it was probably a good thing...

Yes. Every additional person in a band comes with additional challenges and costs...most aspects of the band's operations are impacted to varying degrees, scheduling rehearsals, learning/arranging songs, pay, blackout dates for gigs, space on stage, increased potential for personality conflicts, etc.

Balancing those costs against the benefits is how we decide what to do and/or what feels best.

I can thoroughly enjoy the benefits of and feel of playing with just one guitar, bass and drums. Some of the top bands in the area that I've been impressed with over the years have been been three piece with a front person who occasionally picks up a guitar. By having certain elements; a killer front person and guitarist and strong vocals all around, bands with that streamlined configuration can be extremely entertaining, especially when they're more fearless about tackling (and succeeding with) songs that some shy away from because of instrumentation.

 

[drpepper]

...often used to playing by themselves and will tend to try to cover everyone's parts... melody, rhythm and bass. The joke of tying the pianist's left hand behind him is actually not a joke

Good point. I've definitely heard of this issue, but I guess I've been lucky to not have any situations where a keyboard player was crowding other parts.

 

[ebo]

My current band started with two guitars, bass, drums, singer. The two guitarists had wildly different styles and clashed more often than not. They’d never work out their parts and played over each other. It was super annoying. We added keys, lost the more annoying guitarist, and now sound great. A single guitarist who can handle rhythm and leads is better than two who don’t play nice together. And we have a lot more flexibility in song choices with keys. Finding a good keyboard player was a lucky break for us, they aren’t often seen in the wild.

 

[lokikallas]

I love it. My lead singer also does keys. This opens up a bunch of tunes that other bands can’t even attempt well.

 

[Alik]

When we had a keyboard player, I tried to steer the band toward songs that have keys in them just because it means doing songs that other bands can't. Why do ZZ Top when everyone else does ZZ Top? Let's do some Journey, Deep Purple, Bon Jovi, etc. If you must do a song that doesn't have keys you can always add keys - organ sounds, strings and brass can fit well in almost any song.

In my last band I was the keyboard player, and I agree with the underlined words since they are exactly what I expected from this band. It was clearly discussed at day one. More songs with keys were supposed to be added to the list. Unfortunately that never happened, only one or two songs per set list had keyboard parts. "Alone" by Heart was a real hit with the audience.
BL/guitar player sent these new songs to learn: Immigrant song, Rock you like a hurricane, Heartbreaker, Still loving you, etc. No keyboards, brass parts, pads in them. Really not a motivating situation having your suggestions ignored.
Next month I'll start practicing with other band.

 

[two fingers]

Just thought various people's thoughts and approaches to the topic might be interesting to discuss some.

I've noticed that cover bands can take different approaches to keyboards. I think that generally, for the weekender level, keys can be one the more difficult spots to fill but also end up being a spot that the right group can do very well without.

One route is to simply not have or seek to have keyboards and then do some combination of arranging songs to try to cover for lack of keyboards and/or limiting song selections based on instrumentation. If the subject comes up from time to time, arguments against adding keys often involve fewer moving parts meaning less effort for keeping a nice, tight and clean result and fewer mouths to feed means more in each pocket...both valid enough. I've happily played without keyboards.

Another is to have a keyboard player who can also play guitar and possibly other instruments (sax, violin...). I'm currently in a band with type of arrangement. For this band specifically, problems can come from the fact that he's not really a keyboard player who can also play guitar, he's more a guitar player who took piano lessons growing up and has enough connection to the the instrument to help out some. So, it takes care of the arguments above, but depending on the person, can mean some compromises and having the capability but at a lower level than other parts of the group.

And then there's having a dedicated keyboard player, which is the situation in another band. Assuming the skill is there, it's great in doing away with song limitations and arranging for switches. My problem here is that, in my experience, with a lot of rock tunes, this has led to there being keyboards in songs that don't have them in their original versions. A while back, I played with a guy who was real good about this...he had a good attitude about serving the song, so he'd hang back, drop out, do hand percussion when it was called for, and he had a decent overdriven guitar patch where he could throw out some chords to fill-in without being overbearing. That was nice. At the level many people are operating, a big part of playing music is for enjoyment, and sitting out a lot wouldn't be so much fun. But I have to say the result of hearing keyboards in covers where they don't belong bugs the crap out of me (doesn't seem to bother anyone else I play with to anywhere near the same degree). Currently, where that's the case, I'm not in a position to do anything about it except sulk.

So, I've experienced and seen the positives in each type of situation as well as the difficulties and frustrations that can come from each.

Yeah I think all of then can work. In the last situation you should just be a little more zen about it. The guy/gal doesn't want to just stand there. As long as he/she doesn't over play by a lot just roll with it. Life it too short to pout over stuff like that.

If there's a really good example of how keys are literally ruining the song, tell us about it. Otherwise, I think you're over thinking that part.

We have a dedicated keys player. He's a BA piano player and "good enough" at synth stuff. Dude can sing his butt off. So I'm happy with our arrangement.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I'd rather have a good keyboardist than a good second guitarist.

 

[Joeywhat]

I played keyboard & sax in a cover band a while back, for songs where there really wasn't a ton of need for me (such as AC/DC, etc.) I would usually switch to a crunchy organ patch and play some "rhythm guitar" way down in the mix. Usually just power chords following basic guitar rhythm to fill things out a little more, and back enough in the mix to not really stand out in any way.

If there was a lot of clean guitar I would just take a break, no hiding behind that. Usually lots of clean guitar meant room for sax with what we played anyways.

 

[hrodbert696]

Agree that having a good keys player can add a huge new dimension to the band, and I'm stunned at the foolishness of the band @Alik describes, having one and not taking advantage of it with appropriate song selection. They are hard to find, I assume because if you can play keys, you have a lot of options besides cover bands to play in. In Granite State Rhythm (the band which is the instrumental backbone of BBNG), we try to pick songs that highlight our keys player or give him an essential role - Take Me to the River, You Can Call Me Al (horn parts), Nothing from Nothing, etc.

In most bands I haven't had one, and it's affected approach in different ways. In Mugshot Monday, our original drummer runs backing tracks for some songs, but he travels a lot so we're often using subs who don't run the tracks. What we've found is that there are some songs where the track/"keys" part is indispensable, others where we can pull them off without it. You really have to have them for 1999, for instance, but Livin on a Prayer or Uptown Funk go over just fine without. When we play Journey, we do Any Way you Want It and Blue Jean Girl but not Don't Stop Believin'.

I've done some things to cover for the lack of a keys player and fill out songs or expand what we can do. I use a "Royal Blood" type of setup where a split signal goes an octave up, and that line has a C9 organ pedal on it as well as an OCD, so it can sound like organ or rhythm guitar in unison with the bass. So for instance, I can kick the organ in when we do Elvis Costello's Pump It Up and a couple other tunes. In Six Cowards, an alt/indie cover band I used to have, I had a keyboard on stage - I'm not much of a player, but used it for some simple parts, like I'd use a looper to set up a bass line for I Will Possess Your Heart and then play keys over it for that long intro.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

Just thought various people's thoughts and approaches to the topic might be interesting to discuss some.

I've noticed that cover bands can take different approaches to keyboards. I think that generally, for the weekender level, keys can be one the more difficult spots to fill but also end up being a spot that the right group can do very well without.

One route is to simply not have or seek to have keyboards and then do some combination of arranging songs to try to cover for lack of keyboards and/or limiting song selections based on instrumentation. If the subject comes up from time to time, arguments against adding keys often involve fewer moving parts meaning less effort for keeping a nice, tight and clean result and fewer mouths to feed means more in each pocket...both valid enough. I've happily played without keyboards.

Another is to have a keyboard player who can also play guitar and possibly other instruments (sax, violin...). I'm currently in a band with type of arrangement. For this band specifically, problems can come from the fact that he's not really a keyboard player who can also play guitar, he's more a guitar player who took piano lessons growing up and has enough connection to the the instrument to help out some. So, it takes care of the arguments above, but depending on the person, can mean some compromises and having the capability but at a lower level than other parts of the group.

And then there's having a dedicated keyboard player, which is the situation in another band. Assuming the skill is there, it's great in doing away with song limitations and arranging for switches. My problem here is that, in my experience, with a lot of rock tunes, this has led to there being keyboards in songs that don't have them in their original versions. A while back, I played with a guy who was real good about this...he had a good attitude about serving the song, so he'd hang back, drop out, do hand percussion when it was called for, and he had a decent overdriven guitar patch where he could throw out some chords to fill-in without being overbearing. That was nice. At the level many people are operating, a big part of playing music is for enjoyment, and sitting out a lot wouldn't be so much fun. But I have to say the result of hearing keyboards in covers where they don't belong bugs the crap out of me (doesn't seem to bother anyone else I play with to anywhere near the same degree). Currently, where that's the case, I'm not in a position to do anything about it except sulk.

So, I've experienced and seen the positives in each type of situation as well as the difficulties and frustrations that can come from each.

I generally won’t join a band with a keyboard player. And I always push back against the idea of adding keys to any band I’m in.

I played with keyboardists in a couple of bands and it soured me to the concept.

First, I’m just not that big a fan of them in general. And totally agree with the OP… i don’t generally think its a good idea to add them to familiar songs that didn’t originally have them. But that creates the problem of what does the keyboardist do when there are no keys in a song?

Another issue I’ve encountered is with their different patches being all over the place, volume-wise, making them a challenge to mix. I’m guessing seasoned pros have all their patches balanced, but the ones I’ve played with were a challenge to mix.

But the main reason for my non-interest is there were so many issues of stepping on each others toes in the bass region that it just wasn’t worth it. I’d rather play without one than try to work all that out.

I dont particularly like playing with second guitarists either. I’m a selfish bassist. 3 piece is my jam.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Just thought various people's thoughts and approaches to the topic might be interesting to discuss some.

I've noticed that cover bands can take different approaches to keyboards. I think that generally, for the weekender level, keys can be one the more difficult spots to fill but also end up being a spot that the right group can do very well without.

One route is to simply not have or seek to have keyboards and then do some combination of arranging songs to try to cover for lack of keyboards and/or limiting song selections based on instrumentation. If the subject comes up from time to time, arguments against adding keys often involve fewer moving parts meaning less effort for keeping a nice, tight and clean result and fewer mouths to feed means more in each pocket...both valid enough. I've happily played without keyboards.

Another is to have a keyboard player who can also play guitar and possibly other instruments (sax, violin...). I'm currently in a band with type of arrangement. For this band specifically, problems can come from the fact that he's not really a keyboard player who can also play guitar, he's more a guitar player who took piano lessons growing up and has enough connection to the the instrument to help out some. So, it takes care of the arguments above, but depending on the person, can mean some compromises and having the capability but at a lower level than other parts of the group.

And then there's having a dedicated keyboard player, which is the situation in another band. Assuming the skill is there, it's great in doing away with song limitations and arranging for switches. My problem here is that, in my experience, with a lot of rock tunes, this has led to there being keyboards in songs that don't have them in their original versions. A while back, I played with a guy who was real good about this...he had a good attitude about serving the song, so he'd hang back, drop out, do hand percussion when it was called for, and he had a decent overdriven guitar patch where he could throw out some chords to fill-in without being overbearing. That was nice. At the level many people are operating, a big part of playing music is for enjoyment, and sitting out a lot wouldn't be so much fun. But I have to say the result of hearing keyboards in covers where they don't belong bugs the crap out of me (doesn't seem to bother anyone else I play with to anywhere near the same degree). Currently, where that's the case, I'm not in a position to do anything about it except sulk.

So, I've experienced and seen the positives in each type of situation as well as the difficulties and frustrations that can come from each.

Keyboards make decent horn sections. But yes, usually songs end up with keys when they don't have them in it. A good player, will do it tastefully though.

 

[Bass4Brkfast]

organ sounds, strings and brass can fit well in almost any song.

This. ^^
If the keyboard player is good, he/she can add parts that are tasteful and fitting for the song or style.
If the OP is cringing at non-orignal keyboard parts, maybe the specific parts are the problem and not the fact that the original arrangement didn't have keys.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

one of the groups I play in uses tracks for all/any keyboard songs. the drummer's "day job" is studio engineer and producer so he's great at controlling things. they make it a point not to play tunes that are keyboard driven.