Keyboards in Cover Bands - How do you do things?

[drpepper]

As an audience member, this also annoys me. I don't know what it is about it, but throwing keyboards into a rock song that don't have keyboards just makes it sound... cheap? muzak-y? I dunno...

I think we get each other. If I come across a 2 bass player project, I'll call you.

I really don't think it matters to most audience members...probably very few if any even notice. I've been in kind of vigorous debates about not adding songs ... "We CAN'T play X without keyboards!" I think we tend to wrestle with this more than is truly warranted.

If you play Don't Stop Believing with with one guitar, bass and drums and do a decent job, almost no one in a typical bar audience will care or even notice.

 

[Altitude]

I think we get each other. If I come across a 2 bass player project, I'll call you.

I really don't think it matters to most audience members...probably very few if any even notice. I've been in kind of vigorous debates about not adding songs ... "We CAN'T play X without keyboards!" I think we tend to wrestle with this more than is truly warranted.

If you play Don't Stop Believing with with one guitar, bass and drums and do a decent job, almost no one in a typical bar audience will care or even notice.

Interesting example. The piano voice is so central to that song’s identity I don’t know how a band with no keys could make it sound good. Without reinventing it, which could be cool but is sort of a different thing.

But I suppose the stakes aren’t too high at Bender’s Pub on Saturday or wherever we’re playing. Just make it sound good with what you have.

 

[drpepper]

My only irritation with keyboards in bands is when they fill in with non-keyboard/synth sounds, such as a brass section, sax or flute.

Interesting...

Personally, I've been more bothered in cases where keyboard players have taken this stance and won't or resist trying to reproduce horn and string parts and there has to be discussion and debate about it. We're all entitled to feel our own sensibilities about these things, but I think it's another one where typical audience member isn't going to think anything of it.

 

[FullumMusic]

I think we get each other. If I come across a 2 bass player project, I'll call you.

Oh man, would i also dislike a 2 bass player project? Seems like a mess of conflicting low-end mud. Am i just a grumpy old man now? We'd have to only cover "Walk on the Wild Side" and a bunch of old tic-tac-bass country tunes... and one of us would need to play upright, which i don't play... and i also don't play country. Hmmmm.

 

[drpepper]

The piano voice is so central to that song’s identity I don’t know how a band with no keys could make it sound good.

I think that's a musician POV

This is video of another forum member's old band (@MoeTown1986) that I just did a quick YouTube search on because it was a band that did absolutely fantastic as a 3 piece for a long time ... Moe is THE MAN!

Here is a bar audience not noticing or caring

 

[drpepper]

Oh man, would i also dislike a 2 bass player project? Seems like a mess of conflicting low-end mud. Am i just a grumpy old man now? We'd have to only cover "Walk on the Wild Side" and a bunch of old tic-tac-bass country tunes... and one of us would need to play upright, which i don't play... and i also don't play country. Hmmmm.

Alright, so I won't call on you.

A band I'm in does a snippet of Walk On The Wild Side mashed up in Can't Always Get What You Want...another bass is what's missing...

 

[ga_edwards]

I think that's a musician POV

This is video of another forum member's old band (@MoeTown1986) that I just did a quick YouTube search on because it was a band that did absolutely fantastic as a 3 piece for a long time ... Moe is THE MAN!

Here is a bar audience not noticing or caring

Absolutely. A friend of mine is in a 3 piece 70s cover band. They pull of things like Mister Bluesky and Highway Star without a keyboard in sight. The audience really couldn't care less. I find the brain fills things in for you if you know the song well enough. If you don't know the song, well, then you won't miss the keyboard!

 

[ga_edwards]

Oh man, would i also dislike a 2 bass player project? Seems like a mess of conflicting low-end mud. Am i just a grumpy old man now? We'd have to only cover "Walk on the Wild Side" and a bunch of old tic-tac-bass country tunes... and one of us would need to play upright, which i don't play... and i also don't play country. Hmmmm.

Don't forget Spinal Tap's Big Bottom. That's at least another 4 mins.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

I used to play in a wedding band with the whole gamut of keyboard players. Some were great: always adding and never stepping on toes, using tasteful patches and editing, playing extended solos when necessary to keep a dance floor moving, etc. And then some are more like: brought five keyboards yet you are never sure they are actually playing, stepping over every frequency all at once, refused solos because they hadn't prepared one, did not play songs they didn't know or just claimed they hadn't prepared, got super professor mode on the way songs should go...I could go on.

That being said, the one time I played keybaords in a band was one of the best experiences musically...although I will admit I do not envy the load in of a keyboard player.

 

[two fingers]

Yep, like I said, I recognize that on the weekender level, everyone is entitled to want to get enjoyment out of doing this. I also recognize that part of this issue is my own sensibilities, as no one else I'm playing with seems to have a problem with it.

That it bugs me and all that I have the power to do is feel irked is one of the things I bring up in the "safe bass space"...it doesn't mean that this is an overwhelming problem; it's not.

Awesome. So since you confessed that, I'll go ahead and tell you I'm in a very similar boat. I DESPISE playing songs we don't have the instrumentation to cover. We have one keyboard and one guitar and me. My band is CONSTANTLY bringing up Skynard, or GnR, or Floyd, etc songs to do. They'll also bring up smash hits our of Nashville. And I'm over here having to say "You do realize that song has three guitars, pedal steel, two keys parts, five vocal parts, drums AND percussion...." And, yes, I get the eye rolls.

So I wasn't picking on you. I "get it".

But my band mates are so freaking awesome. I love 'em. So I pick my battles. I let them "win" from time to time. And the fine folks and Stinky's Bar and Bait Shop survive the "horrible" (not really) version of those songs we play.

 

[bassinflorida]

Funny note on this I think is that a talented pianist really never, ever needs a bassist.

 

[StringsNKeys]

As a keyboard player before becoming a bass player, I HATED to try to shoehorn a keyboard in where it didn't belong. I would sit out, play percussion, sing backing vox, whatever other than add something where it really didn't belong. There were however some tunes that didn't have keys where a tasteful addition didn't hurt and may have actually helped the sound (at least in the bands I played in - and with bandmate concurrence of course!)

These days especially, there are quite a few kbd sounds options available so there may be a better chance for things fitting in without being intrusive.

My son's band uses backing key tracks to fill in (they are very guitar heavy) and live sounds great to my ears and doesn't distract from the performance.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

Funny note on this I think is that a talented pianist really never, ever needs a bassist.

I know a guy like this. He plays amazing keyboard bass. One time I had to jump off stage to fix an issue, and he just picked up the bass part. Once I returned he stopped.

This is why I love the sound of The Doors live sans bass player and find the records less interesting where bass has been added.

 

[bassinflorida]

I know a guy like this. He plays amazing keyboard bass. One time I had to jump off stage to fix an issue, and he just picked up the bass part. Once I returned he stopped.

This is why I love the sound of The Doors live sans bass player and find the records less interesting where bass has been added.

Forgot about The Doors but I agree.

 

[drpepper]

I DESPISE playing songs we don't have the instrumentation to cover. We have one keyboard and one guitar and me. My band is CONSTANTLY bringing up Skynard, or GnR, or Floyd, etc songs to do. They'll also bring up smash hits our of Nashville. And I'm over here having to say "You do realize that song has three guitars, pedal steel, two keys parts, five vocal parts, drums AND percussion...." And, yes, I get the eye rolls.

And you and I are polar opposites on that, and that's okay. As long as you find a way to resolve things within your group (which it sounds like you do), all can be right with the world.

I've been in and on both sides of those debates. Where I usually come down is that I think that as a general matter (it can depend on the song and the band) we in bands tend to overestimate the importance of instrumentation in terms of the audience experience and reaction. I also think that while five vocal parts can be great, and nailing a 3-part harmony can feel very satisfying, with a lot of popular tunes, a simple two part harmony with a good blend can be more effective than trying to do more. There are so many songs that to the common ear, the melody line and most prominent harmony are enough to evoke the feel of the song.

I think it also matters what kind of show/audience you're talking about, where IMO, the only ones that just might have some more critical ears are going to be concert type/sit-down/listening audiences.

Some guys in my circle have a 3-piece that gets pretty eclectic and they can be super entertaining. They've done Steely Dan, My Old School and Green Earrings beautifully. Primary vocal harmonies and creatively tackling the missing parts can do wonders.

 

[ga_edwards]

I used to play in a wedding band with the whole gamut of keyboard players. Some were great: always adding and never stepping on toes, using tasteful patches and editing, playing extended solos when necessary to keep a dance floor moving, etc. And then some are more like: brought five keyboards yet you are never sure they are actually playing, stepping over every frequency all at once, refused solos because they hadn't prepared one, did not play songs they didn't know or just claimed they hadn't prepared, got super professor mode on the way songs should go...I could go on.

That being said, the one time I played keybaords in a band was one of the best experiences musically...although I will admit I do not envy the load in of a keyboard player.

There's a band on my local circuit - actually, the most well known cover band on my local circuit. I watched them setting on one time and the keyboard player (with two large keyboards, and rack) is also the sound man and pretty much sets up the PA himself (15 tops and 2 subs). The rest of the band swan in later, set up their bass and guitar amps (or in the case of the singer, just turns up close to show time) and they're off...

I was also watching from the side for a couple of songs. He has a lot of stuff preprogrammed and doesn't do a lot of live playing beyond holding down some chords.

 

[80jazz]

I think that quality keyboard players are generally harder to find because it tends to less typically be self-taught/play-by-ear instrument, where guitarists and bassists are more likely to take that path and potentially reach higher levels of proficiency (with interest, drive and some natural inclination).

If I am missing something please correct me, but I think that proficiency can happen for keyboardists can happen with formal training.

 

[logdrum]

First drummers and now keyboard players are now demoted to second class musicians here on TB. Really: fetch drinks? WTH. Wow, passive aggressive much, maybe masking inferiority complexes?

I am willing to drop including myself the bass player for a great B3 or KB player who can drive the bass line, But then my covers aren't mostly people's covers here.

Anyway I had a short stint subbing keys for a cover band. They did mix things up a little and a few times I held the bass line while the bass player soloed. I laid back or went off stage when not needed. To blend with guitars if asked, I used clavinet patches and over driven B3s. Guitar patches, not so much. MY Yamaha MOTIF at that time was excellent board.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Keyboards that don't hammer over bass, I'm happy. They can do whatever else they want (within reason).

I was waiting for this to come up! I welcome keyboard players! Just as long as they sit on their left hand!

Seriously, I confess, I'm puzzled by the "We don't need 'em" attitude. Having keys opens the door to all kinds of music.

 

[LBS-bass]

I think that first off, you need to decide if you want a keyboardist or a pianist. My experience has been to watch out for pianists. They are often used to playing by themselves and will tend to try to cover everyone's parts... melody, rhythm and bass. The joke of tying the pianist's left hand behind him is actually not a joke. If the band has a piano oriented, that may work OK.

I would much rather work with a keyboardist who is willing, when needed, to strip his parts down to just what is needed to fill in the holes, often using a patch other than "piano", i.e. horn parts, organ/synth pads and that kind of stuff. Make sure you get a team player.

I would agree with part of this. The decision for me is "pianist, organist, keyboardist or combination player (who probably doesn't solo well but can play pads and other soundscape-type stuff.)"

There's a wide variety of uses for keyboarding instruments and what each band needs is different.

There's no reason a piano player can't play correctly with an ensemble. If you hire someone who is used to playing only SOLO piano pieces, you might have some problems around their left hand. (And, I hate to break it to you, but if they're good readers they're probably playing the bass lines correctly as written and if you aren't doubling that well, you probably aren't. But I digress.)

But any good/experienced ensemble player knows what to play with their left hand to stay out of everyone else's way. The "truth" in the old saying is for inexperienced players.

That said, I'm in one band that has a great piano/organ player and we call her our secret sauce because she's excellent at comping through chord changes and playing solos in R&B type, improvisational situations.

I fired her from another band because she really didn't have the time or the will to learn real parts. You can't play serious covers of more contemporary music with someone who just comps through changes. Parts have to be learned. So out she went.

Another band I'm in has two keyboard players. One is a great soloist, the other is a great solo PLAYER in the sense that he's used to doing those one-man gigs where he covers everything. He's more of a pianist and not so good at improvising.

We mostly have him playing pads and filler stuff so that they stay out of each other's way. None of them ever get in my way.