Keyboards in Cover Bands - How do you do things?

[tycobb73]

Depends who you ask. Stevie's version undoubtedly had better distribution as he was a much bigger star. The BBA version got tons of airplay on underground and progressive radio stations that would never have touched Stevie's version - that's why I heard it first and more often. I never cared about Top 40 radio because it wasn't driven by quality. It was driven by the big labels and you heard what they wanted to put out there.

Do you think popularity of the top 40 variety is what defines quality in music? I can name a half dozen awful songs that became big hits. There are thousands of wonderful recordings that people don't know about because nobody got them out where you could hear them.

Top 40=mass appeal=lowest common denominator. There's a lot of dreck that made the charts. I'm not suggesting Stevie's version is dreck, but the argument that only hits are good songs is a very poor argument that doesn't take into consideration how the music business actually worked at that time.

If you're suggesting the BBA version would have been better off not recorded, I'm gonna say that my life would not be richer for that, nor would others who happen to adore this version and this album. To each their own, but I find it puzzling that on a forum that's supposedly devoted to artistry there will always be someone suggesting creative interpretation is some sort of sinful undertaking.

I think hits are the only thing that matters to drink paying dancers.

My band is doing creep. I've been out sick so I didn't learn my parts, the heavy distorted guitar and the piano at the end. The rest of the band didn't want to practice it. I said you can do it without me. It'll sound find.

But see the thing is, it will sound better with me. Assuming the talent level and tightness is the same, having that 2nd guitar and piano part just fills out the song. People will like the 3 piece version but put them next to my bands version and there's no contest. It just sounds so much fuller and richer, and more familiar to the drunk 35 year old female who we're trying to get to buy more drinks. I tell my band that. I'm not integral to the song. I'm icing on the cake. You can eat a cake without icing but it won't taste as good.

 

[bikeplate]

Im in a poplar local trio. Our guitarist builds backing key tracks which I trigger from a tablet. Sounds killer

 

[LBS-bass]

I think hits are the only thing that matters to drink paying dancers.

My band is doing creep. I've been out sick so I didn't learn my parts, the heavy distorted guitar and the piano at the end. The rest of the band didn't want to practice it. I said you can do it without me. It'll sound find.

But see the thing is, it will sound better with me. Assuming the talent level and tightness is the same, having that 2nd guitar and piano part just fills out the song. People will like the 3 piece version but put them next to my bands version and there's no contest. It just sounds so much fuller and richer, and more familiar to the drunk 35 year old female who we're trying to get to buy more drinks. I tell my band that. I'm not integral to the song. I'm icing on the cake. You can eat a cake without icing but it won't taste as good.

Well you'll have to convince the people who come out to hear my band that we're not all that good then, because they love the way we rearrange things to suit our instrumentation. I think that many people only want to do what they perceive as safe because it's what everyone else has done. But the problem with that is you're not giving anyone a compelling reason to go see your band instead of someone else's band. All those bands basically are interchangeable.

I can spend all my energy on copying something in order to be just like everyone else, or I can put energy toward polishing something that's different and unique. I don't think either one of those approaches is a recipe for disaster if they're done right but I really am not interested in the drunk chick at the bar dictating the quality level I hope to attain.

The funny thing is that my band sells a lot of drinks and gets a lot of butts in seats and sometimes they're dancing and sometimes they're just sitting and listening, like a concert. Even when they are not dancing I know they're involved because they're attentive and enthusiastic with their applause.

The idea that a dance band is the only kind of band there is and that catering to the drunk chick should be my highest level of aspiration is never going to work for me. But I've been at this a long time and I've seen what puts lines around the block with people waiting to get into the club. It's not trying to figure out what the drunk chick wants; it's giving people an experience that they can't get anywhere else. And I think the drunk chick's going to have a good time, too.

 

[Joeywhat]

Im in a poplar local trio. Our guitarist builds backing key tracks which I trigger from a tablet. Sounds killer

I'm curious since I've never used this sort of thing - is there any latency when triggering via a tablet? Are you pressing the button in time or is there some way of the software tracking your tempo and it starts it in time?

 

[drpepper]

might not like it because it's not the same as the one you're all familiar with. Familiarity does breed contempt.

I wasn't aware of the history of that song or that Jeff Beck had any involvement with Stevie Wonder. Just did some further reading and it's a pretty rich history behind that...thanks for bringing it up.

According to what I read, the song was supposed to be part in exchange for Beck's work on the Talking Book album and when there were delays in his release of it things took a different direction. Cool stuff.

Tangent, but familiarity breeds contempt has the opposite meaning as this, but thanks for that too, it made me wonder what the opposite idiom is, and it turns out that preferring things out of familiarity doesn't really have an idiom, so there isn't really an opposite...like "out of sight is out of mind" is the opposite of "absence makes the heart grow fonder"...hmm

 

[LBS-bass]

I wasn't aware of the history of that song or that Jeff Beck had any involvement with Stevie Wonder. Just did some further reading and it's a pretty rich history behind that...thanks for bringing it up.

According to what I read, the song was supposed to be part in exchange for Beck's work on the Talking Book album and when there were delays in his release of it things took a different direction. Cool stuff.

Tangent, but familiarity breeds contempt has the opposite meaning as this, but thanks for that too, it made me wonder what the opposite idiom is, and it turns out that preferring things out of familiarity doesn't really have an idiom, so there isn't really an opposite...like "out of sight is out of mind" is the opposite of "absence makes the heart grow fonder"...hmm

Yeah, there's a short version and a long version of the Stevie vs. Beck situation but the bottom line is that they managed to work it out - I believe there were some hard feelings over it originally but time has mellowed everything. I believe Stevie has said that he got pressure from his label to release it.

I was aware of that opposite meaning when I wrote that but I do think that a saying can take more than one meaning sometimes. Familiarity breeds contempt for the things that are not familiar as much as it does the opposite. Music is especially prone to this brand of contempt.

 

[tycobb73]

Well you'll have to convince the people who come out to hear my band that we're not all that good then, because they love the way we rearrange things to suit our instrumentation. I think that many people only want to do what they perceive as safe because it's what everyone else has done. But the problem with that is you're not giving anyone a compelling reason to go see your band instead of someone else's band. All those bands basically are interchangeable.

I can spend all my energy on copying something in order to be just like everyone else, or I can put energy toward polishing something that's different and unique. I don't think either one of those approaches is a recipe for disaster if they're done right but I really am not interested in the drunk chick at the bar dictating the quality level I hope to attain.

The funny thing is that my band sells a lot of drinks and gets a lot of butts in seats and sometimes they're dancing and sometimes they're just sitting and listening, like a concert. Even when they are not dancing I know they're involved because they're attentive and enthusiastic with their applause.

The idea that a dance band is the only kind of band there is and that catering to the drunk chick should be my highest level of aspiration is never going to work for me. But I've been at this a long time and I've seen what puts lines around the block with people waiting to get into the club. It's not trying to figure out what the drunk chick wants; it's giving people an experience that they can't get anywhere else. And I think the drunk chick's going to have a good time, too.

How many bands put the piano in at the end of creep? How many bands put the harmonica in Mary Jane's last dance? Not many. That's what separates us. How many 3 pieces do these songs and are fooling themselves that they sound good? Thousands.

 

[chazolson]

I can't imagine being in a band without a keyboard player. (Or a band with more than one guitar player.)

 

[drpepper]

You can eat a cake without icing but it won't taste as good.

Not to someone who prefers cake without icing.

You're imposing your likes and dislikes on other people and claiming matters of personal preference are objective facts.

That drunk 35 year old woman may like another band's cover of Creep better than yours (i.e., think they sound better than you) because she doesn't like the way you look and thinks the bass player in the other band is hot (yes, I said the bass player!).

 

[LBS-bass]

How many bands put the piano in at the end of creep? How many bands put the harmonica in Mary Jane's last dance? Not many. That's what separates us. How many 3 pieces do these songs and are fooling themselves that they sound good? Thousands.

I would say all bands that have a piano player are putting it in at the end of creep and all bands that have a harmonica are playing it in Mary Jane. But there are lots of bands that don't have those things.

You and I are actually quite a bit in agreement on a number of things. My preferred band configuration includes a second chording instrument so that no soloist has to have the support thinning out during a solo. I really don't like playing in trios very much. I just don't always agree that you should eliminate songs because your instrumentation isn't perfect for someone else's version of that song.

My band plays Undun by The Guess Who and that song has a flute solo in it. There's no way I'm giving up our rendition of that song just because we don't have a flute player. Our lead guitar plays a solo there and- guess what- everyone loves it. It's not really a dance tune either, but we probably get more applause for that song than anything else we play, and that's probably because we do it well and it's not something you're going to hear elsewhere, flute or no flute The point being that if you go out there with confidence and provide something of quality, people really don't care if that was a flute or a guitar.

 

[tycobb73]

I would say all bands that have a piano player are putting it in at the end of creep and all bands that have a harmonica are playing it in Mary Jane. But there are lots of bands that don't have those things.

You and I are actually quite a bit in agreement on a number of things. My preferred band configuration includes a second chording instrument so that no soloist has to have the support thinning out during a solo. I really don't like playing in trios very much. I just don't always agree that you should eliminate songs because your instrumentation isn't perfect for someone else's version of that song.

My band plays Undun by The Guess Who and that song has a flute solo in it. There's no way I'm giving up our rendition of that song just because we don't have a flute player. Our lead guitar plays a solo there and- guess what- everyone loves it. It's not really a dance tune either, but we probably get more applause for that song than anything else we play, and that's probably because we do it well and it's not something you're going to hear elsewhere, flute or no flute The point being that if you go out there with confidence and provide something of quality, people really don't care if that was a flute or a guitar.

The thing about that song is the flute isn't memorable. If we did it I probably wouldn't bother leaning it and just let the guitar player handle it. But everyone knows there's harmonica in Mary Jane's...

The band actually asked if I could play epiano and organ on wonderful tonight just to fill it out. So it's like having bass, guitar, organ, electric piano.

 

[LBS-bass]

The thing about that song is the flute isn't memorable. If we did it I probably wouldn't bother leaning it and just let the guitar player handle it. But everyone knows there's harmonica in Mary Jane's...

The band actually asked if I could play epiano and organ on wonderful tonight just to fill it out. So it's like having bass, guitar, organ, electric piano.

That's a little subjective. Someone in the audience who plays flute might be really disappointed to not hear it. But most people probably wouldn't.

What I think you're talking about are iconic parts. And if you're actively trying to mimic a specific sound, you probably need to get those in there.

 

[tycobb73]

That's a little subjective. Someone in the audience who plays flute might be really disappointed to not hear it. But most people probably wouldn't.

What I think you're talking about are iconic parts. And if you're actively trying to mimic a specific sound, you probably need to get those in there.

Iconic parts done on the right instrument, not chopped together by a guitarist while the mids fall out because it's only a trio.

 

[LBS-bass]

Iconic parts done on the right instrument, not chopped together by a guitarist while the mids fall out because it's only a trio.

My experience is different. Instrumentation doesn't matter as much as intent, confidence, and ability to achieve a high-quality result. That's what people yell and scream over, not necessarily so much something that sounds just like what they heard on oldies radio / stream today.

I agree with you about the mids falling out though

And Merry Christmas, BTW, if Christmas is what you celebrate. So many holidays it's hard to keep track of them but my sincere wish is that everyone enjoy the weekend .

 

[tycobb73]

My experience is different. Instrumentation doesn't matter as much as intent, confidence, and ability to achieve a high-quality result. That's what people yell and scream over, not necessarily so much something that sounds just like what they heard on oldies radio / stream today.

I agree with you about the mids falling out though

And Merry Christmas, BTW, if Christmas is what you celebrate. So many holidays it's hard to keep track of them but my sincere wish is that everyone enjoy the weekend .

Thank you for keeping a disagreement civil and respectful. A lot of people today can't do that.

 

[LBS-bass]

Thank you for keeping a disagreement civil and respectful. A lot of people today can't do that.

Thanks, and the same to you. I hope you're having a good day

 

[Sam Evans]

As a mediocre bassist and an aspiring mediocre keyboardist, it's interesting to hear about this from both sides. On the one hand, in places like Talkbass, I often hear "The keyboardist is in the way, stepping all over everyone's parts!" On the keyboardist side, I hear "This band hire me, but they won't make any room for me!"

At the end of the day, everyone has to figure out wha sound they want and how they're going to get it. (And with that platitude ... )

 

[LBS-bass]

As a mediocre bassist and an aspiring mediocre keyboardist, it's interesting to hear about this from both sides. On the one hand, in places like Talkbass, I often hear "The keyboardist is in the way, stepping all over everyone's parts!" On the keyboardist side, I hear "This band hire me, but they won't make any room for me!"

At the end of the day, everyone has to figure out wha sound they want and how they're going to get it. (And with that platitude ... )

Since you are learning, I'll give you some thoughts. No band hires a keyboard player to play the bass lines unless they are not employing a bassist. So if you want to play in bands, learn to do something else with your left hand. Play pads, horn parts, make your chords into more interesting inversions, you have a lot of creative latitude on this and it should be fun rather than a problem. If you are playing solo piano pieces, that's a different thing. But the role of a keyboard in a band doesn't (usually) include doubling the bass line, unless the parts were written that way. Occasionally they are.

That said, if someone tells you not to play in the bass range at all, its a sign that they're not too experienced. Bassists and pianists (and organists) have been working well together for decades. It's in WHAT you play, not where you play it. And a good sound engineer knows how to keep the two instruments separated in the mix.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Iconic parts done on the right instrument, not chopped together by a guitarist while the mids fall out because it's only a trio.

I actually l8ke when a band does interesting arrangements, be it a cover band or the original. I'll take Live at Leeds or 11/17/70 over seeing a band with half a dozen supporting musicians any day.

 

[Eli_Kyiv]

Right now my band's incorporating Road to Mandalay into our setlist, and the problem of keyboard player is that she's got only two hands which is definitely not enough, especially nearing the end of the song.